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Fosse - assainissement non-collectif - inspection due!


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We recently bought a house with a fosse, but the previous owners said they didn't know exactly where the fosse was but it had never given them any trouble and it seems to work fine with us.  However, I recently received a letter from the water board (I think - SAUR) telling me that they wanted to come and examine the fosse and see it complied with all regulations and could I produce any paperwork showing the layout of pipes, etc.  The previous owners have no idea - the fosse was in place when they bought it and they have never had it emptied because they don't know where it is!  However, with the aid of a friend we managed to trace a few slabs in the garden which he believes are grease traps and there is a large slab near the house which we cannot lift but which he believes is the fosse.  There is no vent pipe, which alarmed me as I know other fosses often have vents, but my friend tells me that vents are only for 'sealed' fosses and that ours is probably a series of drainage beds leading down to our pond.

I rang SAUR to tell them that I didn't have any papers or diagrams and they suggested I contact the notaire who handled our purchase as he may have background papers, or even the mayor.  However, can anyone please tell me what the current regulations are on fosse non-collectifs, (in fact can anyone tell me what a fosse non-collectif actually is?) what the inspection may involve, whether this kind of fosse needs emptying and what SAUR might be angling to get me to pay for.  I have read a bit about old fosses being declared as non-conforming to regulations and the expenses of putting in more pipes and a newer fosse.

We are about half a mile away from a small sewage treatment station which serves the main village although the few houses in our hamlet have fosses.  Might we be offered a grant or opportunity to link to the main sewage station?

Any advice or comments would be most appreciated.  Fosses are new to us, but it works just fine, but I'm worried we may fall foul (no pun intended) of new regulations so I should like to swot up a bit beforehand.

Thanks all.

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I posted this on another thread:

Our septic tank was inspected last October (4 years after installation). As the regional SATESE had

advised us four years earlier as to what to install,
the "inspector" had all the

details on file.

She started with the pump and its housing, asked a few questions about its efficiency.

She asked a few questions about the size of the tank relative to the number of people living permanently in the property.

She 

lifted the concrete lids over the tank and pocked a stick into it to

assess the crust and the depth of the solid mass towards the bottom.

She

looked at the underside of the concrete lids and sides of the tank and

explained that any pitting of the concrete would indicate that the tank

needed more ventilation.

She also inspected the filter and filter housing beyond the tank as well as the inspection tank beyond the filter bed.

It was all done within about 30 mn and we got a bill from the Trésor Public a month later (€75)

This might help (in French):
Arrêté du 6 mai 1996 fixant

les prescriptions techniques applicables aux systèmes d'assainissement

non collectif
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Thanks for that but that's got me more worried.  You have a pump?  We don't.  I'm afraid I'm a novice when it comes to septic tanks so I wonder whether we should have some kind of air vent, as I see other people have.  Also, if you don't have any idea where the pipes are going to what does the inspector then actually do ... does he make you dig up the garden to find them?

Apologies if these are daft questions but we are totally in the dark about this and, as I said, the previous owners haven't a clue either despite living there for four years.

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It's a peculiar set-up, nothing for you to worry about! [:)]. We have a pump because the tank and the filter bed (gravel and sand) are located above the house and the "water" needs to be pumped up the slope into the tank.

I doubt very much that there will be any digging. Their concern is to prevent the water table being contaminated.

They will look at the tank and check if it needs emptying by poking the crust and the depth to assess the level of the solids inside.

They will check the inspection chambers to see if there is any infiltration of an unpleasant nature.

Unles there is something seriously amiss, they're likely to make a few notes and give you a few pointers on how to improve things if they need improving.

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I think we are in the same boat as Nectarine - we have no idea where the fosse is situated, so how can anyone probe the crust/depth?  And I don't think we have any inspection points unless it is a huge slab near the house......[:(]

Chrissie (81)

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Our system sounds like yours nectarine. We had the inspection in Oct. The man didn't seem shocked - there are others in the same boat around here. We didn't have to dig anything up as he seemed to know what was going on below ground. He found where the grey water exited to the ditch in the lane [+o(] He suggested that we have the tank emptied (he said there would be a removable cover somewhere) and have a grease trap made. And to expect a visit from the Maire before 2012. We got a report later which was pretty negative, and a bill for 75€. But not worrying about it for the moment.
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I am amazed that anybody would buy a house without knowing where their waste goes! I once had vendor tell me that their house had a septic tank and when it was investigated for the purchaser there was an overflow from a fosse etanche (cess pit) which ran down a ditch at the side of the drive. This was not 'treated' sewage, just the liquid overflow! The house had been modernised and had two bathrooms, both of which emptied into the small cess pit and overflowed into this ditch. The smell in summer must have been unmentionable! (Mind you they had lovely peaches on the trees in the drive!) Even a modern septic tank should be empted every 5 years or so, to reduce the build up of solids.
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We  had our fosse septique inspected 3 yrs ago, by the assainement folk, when most of the village were changing to mains.  It had not been emptied for at least 12 yrs (our occupancy).  The lady poked a long stick thru the surface crust and found no solids right to the bottom.  We had it emptied, having agreed an annual charge of some £30, and understand this will cover the emptying every 3 (or was it 5) years.  Personally with our fosse septique working as well as it had, I would have left will alone but did not want to upset the bureaucrats.

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  • 9 months later...

I'm just updating a thread I started last year as certain other factors have come to light, namely that I've now been told that the previous seller or at least the notaire should have given me a certificate showing that our fosse had been examined and conformed to certain standards, and that this law came into effect about two years ago - certainly before we bought it.  I've searched on this forum but can't find a definitive answer - and don't want to go to the notaire who handled the house purchase yet, as I want to get my facts straight in case she is at fault - but from a certain date the seller must provide a conformity document showing all the drainage and that it has been accepted by SAUR (or whoever), and they're breaking the law if this isn't provided.

Can anyone please tell me if this is right, or point me to the relevant law please?

Many thanks

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A new build situated in an ANC zoned area would have to comply with the current SPANC regulations at that time as an annexe to the Permis de Construire.

It would be in the interests of the vendor to use the Certificat de Conformité for the ANC to make the sale more attractive.

In the case of a non new build the vendor would be likely to similarly use a valid Certificat to assist the sale and indeed without such Certificat at the reinspection date the SPANC might well insist on doing a complete reappraisal.

The lack of a Certificat would suggest that the dwelling does not have an ANC installation in conformity withe the EN 12566 and FN DTU 64-1/4 requirements.

There appears to be however no strict legal requirement for the vendor to effect disclosure on the matter.
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We bought just under 2 years ago and although the vendor gave us the invoice she had for having the fosse emptied, about 2 years previously if I recall, there was nothing else mentioned about it by the Notaire nor in the paperwork.

I think a house sale must somehow trigger an inspection because maybe 6 or 9 months after we bought we got a letter saying that they wanted to come and inspect but we never replied and so far nobody has been back to us.

Regarding mains sewerage, I think the deal is if it is available nearby (don't know what the definition of that is) then you are obliged to go onto it. Don't know about any grants.

For us, being where we are, it is not an option nor likely to be in our tenure of the property !

I think you can look forward to a trebling of your water bills once you are connected BTW [:'(]

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thanks for the replies but, apologies, I'm really not clear on this.  Our house is an old house and we were told there was a fosse there.  I knew nothing of the law, but have been told by someone close to a notaire that in the last few years a law was passed that a seller must have a declaration certificate (or something like that) for the fosse, and that a notaire must insist on it being included in the house deeds.  None of this was done and it's only now come to light. 

I can't ask this person again, so wonder if someone can point me in the direction of this law (if it exists).  And I know it is all hearsay and all that, but if the notaire is at fault then I would prefer to be armed with the fact before I make an appointment ... into the lion's den and all that!

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In accordance with the "loi sur l'eau du 30 décembre 2006 a commune is required to draw up a plan indicating the zones of the commune which are subject to "assainissement collectif dotées de reseau de collecte" and zones of assainissement non collectif".

If you go to your Mairie on request you can examine the plan indicating zones for mains drainage and zones for individual treatment of sewage.

These zoning plans tend to be set in stone and if your house is located close but outside the collective zone you will not be able to connect to the mains system even if you offer to pay all the costs of the connection. A connection will only be permitted if the zoning is changed.

This can be difficult and time consuming.
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[quote user="nectarine"]thanks for the replies but, apologies, I'm really not clear on this.  Our house is an old house and we were told there was a fosse there.  I knew nothing of the law, but have been told by someone close to a notaire that in the last few years a law was passed that a seller must have a declaration certificate (or something like that) for the fosse, and that a notaire must insist on it being included in the house deeds.  None of this was done and it's only now come to light. 

I can't ask this person again, so wonder if someone can point me in the direction of this law (if it exists).  And I know it is all hearsay and all that, but if the notaire is at fault then I would prefer to be armed with the fact before I make an appointment ... into the lion's den and all that!

[/quote]

The assainissement (sewage installation) is not included in the "diagnostic immoblier", accordingly there is no legal requirement for the sewage treatment situation to be declared in conjunction with the sale of a private dwelling.
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[quote user="pachapapa"]In accordance with the "loi sur l'eau du 30 décembre 2006 a commune is required to draw up a plan indicating the zones of the commune which are subject to "assainissement collectif dotées de reseau de collecte" and zones of assainissement non collectif".

If you go to your Mairie on request you can examine the plan indicating zones for mains drainage and zones for individual treatment of sewage.

These zoning plans tend to be set in stone and if your house is located close but outside the collective zone you will not be able to connect to the mains system even if you offer to pay all the costs of the connection. A connection will only be permitted if the zoning is changed.

This can be difficult and time consuming.[/quote]

This is the position we are in - 50 metres outside 'the zone' - so stuck with septic tank and no hope of being able to resort to bleach cleaners! 

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[quote user="Scooby"][quote user="pachapapa"]In accordance with the "loi sur l'eau du 30 décembre 2006 a commune is required to draw up a plan indicating the zones of the commune which are subject to "assainissement collectif dotées de reseau de collecte" and zones of assainissement non collectif". If you go to your Mairie on request you can examine the plan indicating zones for mains drainage and zones for individual treatment of sewage. These zoning plans tend to be set in stone and if your house is located close but outside the collective zone you will not be able to connect to the mains system even if you offer to pay all the costs of the connection. A connection will only be permitted if the zoning is changed. This can be difficult and time consuming.[/quote]

This is the position we are in - 50 metres outside 'the zone' - so stuck with septic tank and no hope of being able to resort to bleach cleaners! 
[/quote]

 

 

   you can buy bleach that is   ... " sans danger pour fosse septic "

            Dave

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[quote user="Scooby"]This is the position we are in - 50 metres outside 'the zone' - so stuck with septic tank and no hope of being able to resort to bleach cleaners! [/quote]Count your blessings though. As I said earlier being on the sewer can dramatically increase the cost of your water. We pay around €1.1/lt but I know others who are in the village and on the sewer pay 3 times that or more.

Usual regional variations will probably apply but anybody else care to tell us what they pay, either off or on the sewer ?

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[quote user="nectarine"]

I'm just updating a thread I started last year as certain other factors have come to light, namely that I've now been told that the previous seller or at least the notaire should have given me a certificate showing that our fosse had been examined and conformed to certain standards, and that this law came into effect about two years ago - certainly before we bought it.  I've searched on this forum but can't find a definitive answer - and don't want to go to the notaire who handled the house purchase yet, as I want to get my facts straight in case she is at fault - but from a certain date the seller must provide a conformity document showing all the drainage and that it has been accepted by SAUR (or whoever), and they're breaking the law if this isn't provided.

Can anyone please tell me if this is right, or point me to the relevant law please?

Many thanks

[/quote]

You know  a lot of ill informed people.  AFAIK most of the Lot et Garonne properties have been inspected, but it's not yet a requirement for an house sale.

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[quote user="Catalpa"][quote user="gosub"]
... but it's not yet a requirement for an house sale.[/quote]

From 01 January 2013, le diagnostic paperwork must be included in the set of reports (l'amiante etc) for a house sale.[/quote]

Perhaps less prescient than a far flung forward look at the year 2013.

The current "diagnostic immoblier" contains a potential 7 elements however on the 1st January 2009, three weeks away, the number will increase to 8 as a result of the inclusion of the diagnostic of the electrics.

Of course the requirement for compliance will not be obligatory, the cost of bringing a pre '50s residence up to scratch will no doubt be between € 5000-8000.

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  • 1 year later...
You are probably aware of this now but we purchased our house in Feb 2007 and were told that the Fosse had to be emptied by the previous owner and a certificate provided stating such. It was done, we believe, as we have a certificate. However, we also have a certificate to show the chimney was swept - but it was blocked. Take care and good luck.
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