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Big problems ahead?


Aly
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No intention to offend. but the health/care costs of pensioners are unsurprisely higher. The funds recieved from the Uk or payments made by low income pensioners are heavily subsidised  by the French and do not reflect the true cost. The avearge insurance cost to the state is around 600€ per month per person. If you recall these issues have come up before as has tax on non residents homes. That is back a 15% tax on non residents sales and rents was announced yesterday. .How long will it take before they demand change to the health funding contributions for expats. Same is happenning in Spain because of the huge numbers of UK pensioners. Many EU countries have introduced a care tax to cover long term care or demand private insurance.

Very few French pensioners settle in the UK. The young- yes but they work ad contribute. Remember what one french MP said they have all our young and we have all the their old

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Norman I think you are partially right. But this is  in dispute as it would mean hardship for UK residents who cannot access services because of spending cuts yet full coverage for those who have chosen to live abroad. Hardly fair  and non sustainable.Daily Mail horror story stuff.......

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[quote user="Aly"]No intention to offend. but the health/care costs of pensioners are unsurprisely higher. The funds recieved from the Uk or payments made by low income pensioners are heavily subsidised  by the French and do not reflect the true cost. The avearge insurance cost to the state is around 600€ per month per person. If you recall these issues have come up before as has tax on non residents homes. That is back a 15% tax on non residents sales and rents was announced yesterday. .How long will it take before they demand change to the health funding contributions for expats. Same is happenning in Spain because of the huge numbers of UK pensioners. Many EU countries have introduced a care tax to cover long term care or demand private insurance.

Very few French pensioners settle in the UK. The young- yes but they work ad contribute. Remember what one french MP said they have all our young and we have all the their old

[/quote]

Hi,

      I would like to see references for your 600€ per month figure.          The last figure I have seen for the payment per pensioner made by the UK under S1 was 3600€ p.a. (7200€ per couple) which is considerably higher than the contributions made by the average french pensioner,

      Here are some real authenticated figures;

www.lefigaro.fr/conso/2010/09/16/05007-20100916ARTFIG00733-depenses-de-soins-2724-euros-par-francais.php

If the average pensioner cost 7200€ a year , as you claim, there would be precious little of the 2724€ average left for everyone else!

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You have made two apperantly

contradictory statements in two succeeding posts:

The funds recieved from the Uk or

payments made by low income pensioners are heavily subsidised 

by the French and do not reflect the true cost
. The avearge insurance

cost to the state is around 600€ per month per person.

But this is  in dispute as it

would mean hardship for UK residents who cannot access services

because of spending cuts yet full coverage for those who have chosen

to live abroad

Which of these do you stand by?

Both seem intended to alarm pensioners living in France, but you seem to have changed you mind about the direction from which  that the threat you wish to highlight comes.

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Stop being so dramatic

The payment of real costs has not happnned as yet it has been requested by some goverments because as I said these states do  not wish to subsidise health and care costs for the huge numbers of  particulaly elderly expats..Both statements are therefore correct. The same is being demanded by other states such as  Spain, Cyprus and so on. Perhaps the UK will pay and all will be fine - I hope so.but at what cost and for for how long. If you recall there was a huge fallout last year  in the UK because expat pensioners claiming winter fuel allowances.

My point anyway is not abt pensions it is a general isssue abt how the new  French govertments taxation measures will impact us all. We have already seen as a first act new tax on non residents and the article from Figaro are very interesting. Will more follow. I hope not.

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[quote user="parsnips"][quote user="Aly"]No intention to offend. but the health/care costs of pensioners are unsurprisely higher. The funds recieved from the Uk or payments made by low income pensioners are heavily subsidised  by the French and do not reflect the true cost. The avearge insurance cost to the state is around 600€ per month per person. If you recall these issues have come up before as has tax on non residents homes. That is back a 15% tax on non residents sales and rents was announced yesterday. .How long will it take before they demand change to the health funding contributions for expats. Same is happenning in Spain because of the huge numbers of UK pensioners. Many EU countries have introduced a care tax to cover long term care or demand private insurance.

Very few French pensioners settle in the UK. The young- yes but they work ad contribute. Remember what one french MP said they have all our young and we have all the their old

[/quote]

Hi,

      I would like to see references for your 600€ per month figure.          The last figure I have seen for the payment per pensioner made by the UK under S1 was 3600€ p.a. (7200€ per couple) which is considerably higher than the contributions made by the average french pensioner,

      Here are some real authenticated figures;

Your calcualtion fails to recognise that the French pensioner has both himself and via his her employer paid contributions throughout a working life.  It is that lifetime of contributions that makes the service. Big changes are coming you only have to look at the scale of contributions now being asked for in neighbouring states for newbies to access state services. I think we may see more movement towards private insurance based coverage.

 

[/quote]
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Two more interesting articles from Le Figaro, one on the tax rises, and the other as yet much vaguer on the reduction of public expenditure:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/impots/2012/07/04/05003-20120704ARTFIG00323-plus-de-7milliards-de-hausses-d-impots-des-2012.php

http://www.lefigaro.fr/impots/2012/07/04/05003-20120704ARTFIG00323-plus-de-7milliards-de-hausses-d-impots-des-2012.php

I have not yet seen anything about a "movement towards private insurance based coverage", but you may have better French sources than I have.

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Aly writes:

" Your calcualtion fails to recognise that the French pensioner has both himself and via his her employer paid contributions throughout a working life.  It is that lifetime of contributions that makes the service. Big changes are coming you only have to look at the scale of contributions now being asked for in neighbouring states for newbies to access state services. I think we may see more movement towards private insurance based coverage. " 
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

That goes for the UK nationals who take up residence in France as well, they paid their dues in the UK, the French didn't have to contribute to their health care then. I'm afraid my friend that in your rush to spread alarm among the ex-pat population you are starting to waffle and miss-lead.

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It is not my intention to spread alarm amogst the 20 or so contributors to this site. I was more interested in a general debate on the implications of new taxes on all groups of expats.

But fine you obviously know more then me and  I  really do not wish to upset anyone  - We will see what the future brings.

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[quote user="Aly"]

It is not my intention to spread alarm amogst the 20 or so contributors to this site. I was more interested in a general debate on the implications of new taxes on all groups of expats.

But fine you obviously know more then me and  I  really do not wish to upset anyone  - We will see what the future brings.

[/quote]

I think there are more than 20 contributors to this site.

More made-up figures?

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Ok 30 then. - Where are they. All I see is the same names on every thread. Some threads have had no comments in weeks or months..

What a shame that you cannot or are unable to make a useful contribution but rather a bitchy one. Easy to do on the internet..  I am sorry if the facts are not to your liking but as I said and again respectfully lets wait and see. We are off topic now anyway.

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Thousands - hmmmmm  If you say so. But only some 30 ever actually post. If you compare this site to `anglo info` its easy to see why people join but loose interest.Hundreds debate and share useful info, ideas and news on angloinfo.Any debate on this forum sadly just results in dragging out the nasty old man element. - thats why people do not post. Thousands may have registered but the truth is they have just not bothered to deregister.. I am signing off

Thanks for the articles Norman. Very interesting.

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[quote user="Aly"]Thousands - hmmmmm  If you say so. But only some 30 ever actually post. If you compare this site to `anglo info` its easy to see why people join but loose interest.Hundreds debate and share useful info, ideas and news on angloinfo.Any debate on this forum sadly just results in dragging out the nasty old man element. - thats why people do not post. Thousands may have registered but the truth is they have just not bothered to deregister.. I am signing off

Thanks for the articles Norman. Very interesting.

[/quote]

Hi,

    Before you go , I would still like to see some references for your 600€ per month figure given earlier.

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I just went to the index page and counted 44 different contributors, that's the latest poster on each of the sections, barely scraping the tip of the iceberg, so where you get only 30 contributors from is anyone's guess.... your guess actually.
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[quote user="sid"]I just went to the index page and counted 44 different contributors, that's the latest poster on each of the sections, barely scraping the tip of the iceberg, so where you get only 30 contributors from is anyone's guess.... your guess actually.[/quote]

Sid, I am glad you found somthing useful to do with your time.

The 600€ figure is from a German study on Health provision in the EU .Check the internet.

This has got to silly for me and off topic so I think we should sotp as its pointless. As I said I respect your views not the insults. Tme will tell with the cuts. Lets hope I am wrong it will all be fine.

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[quote user="Catalpa"][quote user="Aly"]THundreds debate and share useful info, ideas and news on angloinfo.[/quote]ROFL.[/quote]

Catalpu - Thanks for so perfectly highlighting my point, .Anyway back on topic here is a article abt the impact of the new non resident taxes on property and possible impact on the  Housing market

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/offshorefinance/9377307/Francois-Hollande-announces-French-tax-grab-on-holiday-homes.html

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Having just read the Daily Telegraph article My take on the situation is that if you own a holiday home in France whilst being resident in UK, and you rent it out, then you will pay an increased level of tax on the ''unearned income''.

If you intend to sell your holiday home then you will pay an increased level of capital gains tax.

These increases ( if the DT is correct) will therefore NOT affect those who do not rent out their holiday home nor will it affect those who are not selling.

Those UK residents with Gite income from France will see their income drop but I would imagine that there are very few ( if any ) UK residents who rely on rental income from French property to ''keep the wolf from the door''.

How the tax situation affects immigrants from UK who reside in France and have a rental income from other French property I have no idea. I imagine that normal tax rules / rates will apply and will not be related to ( original ) Nationality.

If my suppositions above are correct then what exactly is the problem ?
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As well as SC applied to capital gain, the tax on rental income for non residents - so presumably gite income as well will also rise from 20 to 35.5%

The tax on rental income will be retrospective from jan and the Capital gains will apply from the end of this month.

This is surely going to have an impact on those non residents seeking to buy property as an investment as well as those seeking to sell

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