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Racetrack plan shatters quiet life in France...


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It's NOT a race track, it is a circuit for the demostration of classic cars, silenced classic cars, and the track, although large, is not THE central item, there is, as I said, an equistrian centre, fishing, a health spa, a hotel a restoration workshop, all to be built in an area desimated by a storm, which would take a very long time to recover naturally. I did also mention that the Brooker-Carey's company, is French based, and employs nearly 100% French staff, and is NOTHING to do with cars.

The figures I qouted were supplied by local French government, although as a television researcher, I will admit I have not substatiated them, as yet.

My comments as to researching was after a personal dig,at me not the circuit, suggested that if someone couldn't keep to the discussion point, and wanted to have a go at me, they should research who they are insulting before hand!

Yes I support the project, but as I said, I have read up on what the objectives are, and how they will be achieved, much like I did when I helped set up the first Goodwood Festival of Speed.......................

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I have been reading this thread without commenting since it started. I feel that I should put my opinion on here too.

If a person wants to spend their hard earned money on this development then that is for them to try and achieve. If the vast majority of local people don't want this development then I am sure that the powers will not approve it.

I hope that it goes ahead and wish them all the luck in the world. If the local neighbours don't want it then they should have put their hands in their pockets and bought the land themselves rather than trying to dictate to the land owners what they should do with it. How would they feel if they were told that they were not allowed to do something with their own property?

On top of that I think that there should be a 300 meter microlight strip built there too, that way I can pop up and see all the interesting cars running around.

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[quote user="Bob T"] How would they feel if they were told that they were not allowed to do something with their own property?
[/quote]

Er, that's called planning permission isn't it? Are you saying there should be no controls on any development activity?

 

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Exactly! Why are people getting so worked up about it. If most people don't want it then let them put in objections with the proper authorities who will decide if it should go ahead. Don't let the NIMBYs decide.

You will find that the people against will make the most noise about it even if they are in the minority (and claim that they are the majority).

I for one support the venture.

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Two things I'd like to point out, simply as observations.

1] When David and Sandra first put a web site up for the project, it was in French only, and they added an English version after being asked to.

The site against the project is in English only! (or was, haven't looked lately, but I do from time to time to gat a balanced view!!). This might tell you something.

2] Just to show this ISN'T a race track. I was asked recently what form the track would take, advertising controls, how many layers of ARMCO etc etc. The track has NONE of these, as it ISN'T a race track. Safety barriers are disguised as grass banks, and there will be NO advertising baords, as it's a demonstration track for old cars. This has been one of the problems. Ill informed angst against something that insn't actually being built. Certain people think it's going to be Brands Hatch or Silverstone, as they appear on telly, it isn't. It will look like a country road of Edwardian times.

A micro light landing strip, not on the list, YET!

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[quote user="f1steveuk"]

A micro light landing strip, not on the list, YET!

[/quote]

Well it should be! A microlight has loads of interest to petrolheads, that is why something like 70% of microlight pilots are also bikers. There are loads of strips around the Dordogne, but none within quite a few miles of the proposed circuit.

As an aside, I have never heard of any complaints in France against microlights, but there are many in the UK. I think the Brits just like to stop others enjoying their hobbies.

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[quote user="f1steveuk"]Two things I'd like to point out, simply as observations.
2] Just to show this ISN'T a race track. I was asked recently what form the track would take, advertising controls, how many layers of ARMCO etc etc. The track has NONE of these, as it ISN'T a race track. Safety barriers are disguised as grass banks, and there will be NO advertising baords, as it's a demonstration track for old cars. This has been one of the problems. Ill informed angst against something that insn't actually being built. Certain people think it's going to be Brands Hatch or Silverstone, as they appear on telly, it isn't. It will look like a country road of Edwardian times.

A micro light landing strip, not on the list, YET!
[/quote]

If it is not a race track then why does it need to be 12 metres wide ,hardly a country road in Edwardian times.why the need for safety barriers.

Or is it the case that cars will not race against one another but will go at high speed round the track

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[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

[quote user="f1steveuk"]Two things I'd like to point out, simply as observations.

2] Just to show this ISN'T a race track. I was asked recently what form the track would take, advertising controls, how many layers of ARMCO etc etc. The track has NONE of these, as it ISN'T a race track. Safety barriers are disguised as grass banks, and there will be NO advertising baords, as it's a demonstration track for old cars. This has been one of the problems. Ill informed angst against something that insn't actually being built. Certain people think it's going to be Brands Hatch or Silverstone, as they appear on telly, it isn't. It will look like a country road of Edwardian times.

A micro light landing strip, not on the list, YET!

[/quote]

If it is not a race track then why does it need to be 12 metres wide ,hardly a country road in Edwardian times.why the need for safety barriers.

Or is it the case that cars will not race against one another but will go at high speed round the track

[/quote]

Who cares how wide it is? If it is not on your land then why worry? The wider the safer and if there is room for it then make it 40 meters wide, it won't make any more noise.

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Well simply, the people who buy, lets say a 1904 15 litre chain drive Mercedes, would like to learn to drive the thing, not just a case of turning a key and going. Therefore to be able to learn, off road, without endangering others is paramount. The "barriers" are not what you would expect to see on a "race track", more arresting devices, as sometimes, people more used to servo brakes, or indeed brakes that work, may, and I say may, need additional help in stopping. The width and barriers are leaning on the side of caution. Just in case. The FIA have had a very serious input into the project, but I will repeat, the track is a small part, the same thought is going into the fishing, shooting, horse riding, health spa, museums etc etc etc

I think Mirco lights would be a great addition, but can't wait to hear someone say that they're now build an airport for world war two fighters!

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Nowhere on the project web site do I see the word 'race' ever mentioned so why are people getting so uppity about it.

It is to be a meuseum with a demonstration track and whilst some drivers may feel the need to go round it quickly that in itself does not equate to noise and what noise there is likely to be will be strictly limited and controlled. I'll bet at the end of the day hardly anybody will even know it's there and will wonder what all the fuss was about. Cries of "howzatt" from the cricket pitch and the chinking of bone china tea cups on the pavillion terrace will probably be more intrusive [Www]

If as claimed the opponents refused numerous invitations to (non obligatory) meetings view the plans then I fail to see how they can protest it now [:-))]

 

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[quote user="Christine Animal"]

What about the 675 loudspeakers?  [:-))]

 

[/quote]

Or even 675 speakers, they do not need to be loud. Can I assume that you live within a few meter of the proposed circuit? If not then I doubt that you will hear them so you should have no worries.

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Snetterton Winter Rallycross mid January - unscrew ( light bulb or pregnant woman)  snow studs from tow car -  screw snow studs into Swedish winter tyre on Autocross Mini - pour reasonable amout of five star ( remember that) over Mini to defrost it.

Eventually meeting called off but by this time have met guys from local US Airforce Base and have serious money bet going on the mini versus a Camaro. Bad news the American gentlemen in question have enough clout that they have the runway defrosted. Good news co owners 7.5 stone sister drove the mini and it was a standing quarter mile.

I cannot believe anybody thinks there is demand for a new racing circuit in France. I have walked round Crystal Palace and Monaco. I have raced at Wimbledon (Dog/Stock Car Track) . Excluding the circuits like Angouleme where it is clearly not safe to race 2Cvs now France is litered with circuits which were not finacially viable.

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Well, Anton, if people have more money than sense and if they are determined to build whatever, then perhaps we should let them just get on with it.

But, boy, talk about schadenfreude, I'd be happy to be amongst those who will be saying, I told you so!

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OK. I'm neither a tree-hugger nor a petrol-head; also, I don't have any plans to live anywhere near the site. I just want to understand what this place is going to be for and if the stated plans make sense -- call it nosiness.

From what ErnieY and co say, it's not for races, but for 'demonstrations. What does that entail? It sounds like a mini version of the various London-Brighton runs.

Someone suggests that it is for new owners of old cars to have driving lessons. That sounds like a tiny market.

They are talking about 40,000 visitors a year. Is this likely to be spread fairly evenly or will there be lots of people on a small number of days?

Are 40,000 visitors likely to be enough to cover capital depreciation plus running costs? 35 full-time jobs are likely to cost about half a million a year for a start.

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Sorry I had not read the argument and the entire thread -  " Just to show this ISN'T a race track. I was asked recently what form the track would take, advertising controls, how many layers of ARMCO etc etc. The track has NONE of these, as it ISN'T a race track. Safety barriers are disguised as grass banks, and there will be NO advertising baords, as it's a demonstration track for old cars "

Having now read the entire thread - Most of the rallycross events, many of the sprints and a fair chunk of the circuits I have either competed or spectated or spannered at lacked some or all of the above.

I am not even against it just surprised – most French circuits I am aware of struggle to hold three or four meetings a year. Retromobile and the Old Timer section of Essen show there is considerable interest in Classic cars in Europe. My impression was that track time for either single seaters or anything else seems much more cheaply available in Europe than UK but it it a long time since I checked..

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Your right there are already many private tracks, all trying to make aliving, I think though in David and Sandra's case, the track forms just one, small part of a larger complex, with many and varied attractions. Just on the proposal alone, there has been much interest as to when bookings will be taken. It is better to look at the track/museum as a sort of living museum.

I can see why some people's blood has boiled, the word "track" conjuers up the thought of loud single seaters, but a 1904 Vulcan, or even a 1960s Ferrari, will make no more noise than a road car, probablt less behind trees, and down in a valley!

I was once part of the organisation that ran the Bexhill 100, to mark the site of the first timed speed trials for motor cars in the UK, and in the last year, a friend of mine, Colin Fallows, ran a jet engined drag car on Bexhill sea front, and five streets back we were told, "what noise, didn't hear a thing"..................

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It seems that money is dictating peoples lives yet again.

 

We had and possibly still have , a similar issue in my local village in Devon.UK

Nigel Mansell , of grand prix racing fame , tried very hard to extend a local go cart track(purchased for his sons to play with) into a multi million pound race track and corporate entertainments centre. It was planned to provide accommodation for staff and be the base for the works championship team.It is coincidentally , next to the local airstrip and right in the middle of the Black down hills , which is clasified an area of outstanding natural beauty.New building work is strictly controlled .

After worrying weeks of protesting , including marches and petitions by local residents ,planning permission was refused, however , he still hasnt gone away , and it is believed he maybe making moves to buy up othe local areas and businesses including the airfield , to further his cauuse.

I guess he believes that if he owns most of the area, thee wont be any one to protest.

My recommendation to all of you would be to gather as much support as possible and protest vocally but peacefully against the plans . Remember the added problems that are likely to descend on the area, its not just racedays , they are controlled. Its the add ons that have to be run to make the proect viable such as your corporate play times , often shipped in by helicopters for the day .

Get a good web site up and running . ours had the great catch phrase "cancel mansell.com"

Get someone famous to back your campaign  from the area , they usually know how to get the best from the media.

 

good luck

Go for it , protect your sanctary .

 

Jayne

 

 

 

 

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Hi Jaynebee... I've logged back in tonight after a few weeks away and have been reading this post with interest...

I have no knowledge of the proposed area for development in France but I do know the area you mention in Devon very very well indeed ... and your post I feel doesn't paint a wholly accurate picture... so in the interest of balance...

There has been an airfield at Dunkerswell for decades (at least since the second world war) and there has been a racing kart track there for over 30 years... from a local's point of view it would be fair to say that this particular East Devon village is not the prettiest and house prices in the village therefore reflect this... including the 600 or so not so attractive modern houses... it is also home to a rather less than attractive trading/industrial estate (my OH worked there for many years)...the celebrity involved is kirsty allsop who moved into her country home and I gather was keen to retain the dream of country living... as are many of the folks who move into East Devon from outside the area... fact is that East Devon needs jobs and industry and tourism and locals need work all year round and anything that can help achieve this is usually welcome.  Just wanted to show that there are always two sides to every arguement [Www]

 

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