New ruling on Winter fuel allowance

[powerdesal]

''As I have said my view is that WFA will change and so it should, why on earth do people who are 60 and working get it, unless they are on other benefit ? All it will take is a government with a decent majority. I don't think there is anything particularly vitriolic about that view.''

RH, there is nothing vitriolic about your viewpoint, nor about anyone else's views, what is vitriolic is the various comments and tone of those comments.

[powerdesal]

I get free rail travel in the UK because of my former profession. I think maybe I should go to the EU and suggest that I get the same here instead of just the 50% off I enjoy at present.

Ex Train driver or was it stoker ??? :-)

[Russethouse]

 

Emily, how can it be justified to make a payment, meant to help pay for winter heating, and send it to people living in Martinique, Guadeloupe  the Caribbean, Réunion in the Indian Ocean tropics and French Guiana in South America.  It can also be claimed by those in Spain’s Canary Islands, Ibiza and Majorca as well as the Portuguese Azores and Madeira islands.

Whether it is 1% or not is irrelevent, I'm sorry.

[Boiling a frog]

Because it is the law, and is a universal payment, made to everyone, no matter their financial situation or indeed their location as long as they are located within the EU.

One cannot discriminate on the grounds of nationality or situation (either financial or location).

I also suspect that the number of UK citizens presently residing in one of the French domtoms and eligible for WFP is so insignificant that it is not worthy of being considered in support of your position.

Why it is the law can only be answered by the people who make the law, the legislature, which is the UK Parliament and the parliament of the EU .Perhaps you should address your question to them because as far as I am aware this forum does not promulgate laws nor is it part of the parliament of the UK or the EU

[Russethouse]

I find it oddly bizarre to say on the one hand its a universal benefit then somehow want to discount those in places it doesn't suit you to take into consideration...the fact is they are entitled, whether its 1 or 100 or a 1000. 

A quick look at Maderia makes me think there are more than just a handful of people who live there who may qualify.....and it rarely gets below 20 c.[blink]

 As I've already said I think the whole thing is a shambles and I  thought that a long time before this particular ruling.

[John Brown]

I think we have flogged this one to death now.

One last thing, I hope,

 If you have applied before and been knocked back because of the ordinarily resident issue your claim will not be reopened and you need to reapply. Thats from a very nice lady on the UK Pensions Helpline.

[Benjamin]

Now that John Brown has said it's OK  [6]   I'd like to go slightly off topic.

A few pages back Idun made the following posting "As I have said before, we have to have a french S1(E121). We pay

cotisations in France and get an S1 which we have give to

Newcastle.  When the french were slow in issueing it, Newcastle kept

calling us, asking where it was. So we have to pay to be in the NHS. So

we pay, we pay Peter to pay Paul."

Idun

Are you saying you are paying for NHS treatments in the UK or are you saying that the rules in your Competent State (France) are such that, like their other citizens, you continue to pay cotisiations there?

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="John Brown"]I think we have flogged this one to death now.

One last thing, I hope,

 If you have applied before and been knocked back because of the ordinarily resident issue your claim will not be reopened and you need to reapply. Thats from a very nice lady on the UK Pensions Helpline.

[/quote]

I take it you found the correct stable and spoke t=o the correct horse this time?

[NormanH]

If only someone had posted a link to an official text confirming the change, rather than a link to a page with out of date information, or make  mysterious references to unverifiable  phone calls with  horses without giving the number to ring to confirm it might have been possible to comment in an informed way.

I  quote two 'signatures'

Oh, how fine it is to know a thing or two.

and

[cooperlola]

Good point, Norman.  Just in case it's not in the thread already then this appears to tell you all you need to know, including a link to the form to claim missed payments if you live abroad:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsandretirementplanning/Benefits/BenefitsInRetirement/DG_198331

Ok, there are  lot of mays and mights in there but at least it tells you where to start. 

[NormanH]

But the claim form linked to on that page is out of date: the new one will be published in August.

It was my quotation from that form and my reasonable interpretation of them that was dismissed as 'rubbish', but as yet no alternative form or exists so we don't know what will be asked.

[Boiling a frog]

The original post by me and subsequent posts were for information ,. If anyone cannot be bothered to establish for themselves whether that info is correct then so be it,

However I take exception to the implication that I am giving misinformation or that I am making it up ,hence the expressed opinion that someone else was speaking rubbish when they had not even bothered to verify the information by telephoning the appropriate department, mearly relying on a website which could easily be out of date or giving wrong information .

[John Brown]

Norman

Here's the link for the claim form plus notes

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@over50/documents/digitalasset/dg_180315.pdf

Helpline number is 0191 2187777, Give them a ring and they will send you a claim form pack

BaF,

Whats with you and horses, Mind you, you are a nightmare sometimes ( get it, mare )

[Russethouse]

With the best will in the world I doubt if it will be much appreciated if everyone who thinks they may be entitled, all phone.

As it says the web site will be updated in August why not wait and perhaps BaF can let everyone know when the site is updated

Baf - I'm just about to Pm you.

[John Brown]

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong web page but I can't see any note saying an update is due in August

I don't expect everyone to phone. I was replying to Norman's request.

You have until 15th September to claim if you want a payment this year

I'm sure someone will put me straight if I'm wrong

[parsnips]

Hi,

  I phoned today , and spoke to a very pleasant young man , who didn't seem stressed or snowed under with calls.  He took my details , told me I qualified under the new ruling, and said I would be sent a claim pack. 

[NormanH]

Some sense from a reliable poster at last. Thank you parsnips.

[Russethouse]

It was Baf who mentioned August and gave the following link for documents.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@over50/documents/digitalasset/dg_180315.pdf

[NormanH]

Now parsnips has confirmed that at least some people will get this allowance, although it remains ridiculous and arbitrary being neither based on need or where you live, but on the date on which you moved.

As I said in the third post on this thread

"I have certainly lived in places in France where it feels colder in winter than it did when I lived in the West of England.

On the other hand I would be perfectly happy not to receive it on the grounds of income, if it were to be means tested"

There are those who don't think that people living abroad should get the WFA, others who think it should be means tested, but can anybody really justify giving it or not on grounds of the date?.

[John Brown]

[quote user="NormanH"]Some sense from a reliable poster at last. Thank you parsnips.

[/quote]

Thats the rest of us told then, Norman

You have a way with words

For that I'm not introducing you to my tortoise ( only some will get that )

[parsnips]

[quote user="NormanH"]Now parsnips has confirmed that at least some people will get this allowance, although it remains ridiculous and arbitrary being neither based on need or where you live, but on the date on which you moved.

As I said in the third post on this thread

"I have certainly lived in places in France where it feels colder in winter than it did when I lived in the West of England.

On the other hand I would be perfectly happy not to receive it on the grounds of income, if it were to be means tested"

There are those who don't think that people living abroad should get the WFA, others who think it should be means tested, but can anybody really justify giving it or not on grounds of the date?.

[/quote]

Hi,

       IT DOES NOT DEPEND ON THE DATE YOU MOVED---- All UK state pensioners living now in an EU country are entitled to claim, even if , like the man who took it to court, they have been out of the UK since the 80s.

[Russethouse]

Is this part of the form out of date then?

Note – if you left the UK permanently before 5 January 1998, you will not be eligible to claim a Winter Fuel Payment within the EEA or in Switzerland as you could not have acquired entitlement to a Winter Fuel Payment in the UK. This scheme was introduced in 1998 and the first qualifying week was 5 January 1998 to 11 January 1998.

[NormanH]

This was my point..here we go again[:)]

[Russethouse]

If the ruling is that non residents who qualify for a pension now get treated the same as UK residents then you should get it, and I guess the enhanced rate woul apply when you hit 80 years of age too.  My mother gets it, and my father died in 1996, so he couldn't possibly have paid in !

The first line of this article says 'all' expats of a pensionable age: http://www.pensionercampaignuk.webspace.virginmedia.com/page315.html

Note: Emily, Is 75 million really just 1% ?

By the way, someone earlier said that ( U turn ) David Cameron had promised to keep WFA as it is - lack of communication then, with Ian Duncan Smith : Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith last night vowed to create a rule on eligibility by temperature, saying: “We will fight these ridiculous EU rules. It is ludicrous we could have to pay more pensioners living in hot countries.” from http://www.puglialife.com/index.php?/page/index.html/_/general/all-expats-to-get-winter-fuel-allowance-r398

[ebaynut]

If IDS thinks "these EU rules are ridiculous", then perhaps he would be better to spend some of his time persuading DC to hold a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU. If the UK is in the EU, then they must abide by the Laws of the EU.

 

As regards to WFA, does he not realise that AC units in hot countries use fuel, this is after all called a winter fuel allowance, not a winter heating allowance.

 

Will people outside of the UK also receive the cold weather payment?  That's when the temperature goes below a certain figure for a prescribed time in the UK and everyone who is entitled to WFA also receives an extra £25.00. My mother received about five of these payments one winter, and are paid automatically into her bank account.