Notaire... and Tax Representative

[Mr C]

I'm sure this has been covered somewhere, but I couldn't find it... and it could be new - so I thought I'd go ahead and ask anyway!!

I have a friend (no - really, NO - REALLY!!!) who has sold their house and moved home to Holland (there's the proof it isn't me!!).

Their sale should all be finished by 17 Feb, but they had a call today from the Notaire to say that they need a Tax Representative and that this will cost 1200€.

My friend's French isn't so good, and she couldn't remember exactly what the title of this official was - but it was something like tax representative...

Now - my friend is selling, not buying... they are selling below the price they bought for... they know the new buyer (though I realise this means nothing to either party)...

Anyone have any ideas??

I've been trawling through French sites all evening, but without being able to find the exact title of this person, I really don't know what to search for!!

I have also set a local friend onto this, and she hasn't heard of such a thing either (apart from a buyer taking care for inheritance tax issues...)

All ideas gratefully received.

Thanks in advance...

Andy

Happily staying put !!

[BJSLIV]

First clue.... Halfway down the page.

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dgi/public/particuliers.impot?paf_dm=popup&paf_gm=content&pageId=part_horsfrance&espId=1&typePage=cpr02&paf_gear_id=500018&docOid=documentstandard_5693&temNvlPopUp=true

They basically act as a double check that there is nothing owing by way of CGT.

I have more when I can find it.

More detail

http://www.fiscalonline.com/Modalites-de-designation-du,150.html

 

 

[Tricia]

A friend of mine was asked to act as a tax rep; by someone who had sold up and gone back to the UK.  It's a sort of guarantor for any tax owing, after all the accounting has been done, as BJSLIV says;

She was a bit fed up as she had to pay out some money to the notaire, and the seller, now in the UK didn't reimburse her for ages..

[Mr C]

@ BJSLIV:

Thanks very much for the reference, but my friend is selling below the price they bought at - by (they didn't say, but kind of hinted) around 50k...  The page you sent is for when they have a "plus-value"...

That case I HAD heard of, but they are making a significant loss, because they just wanted to get home...

Do you think this still applies??

Thanks to Tricia also - I don't think I'll be offering then!!   It's funny how a friend can easily stop being a friend when they move away!!

[Sunday Driver]

If the property is being sold for more than 150,000€ then a fiscal representative is required regardless of whether a tax liability arises.

See the summary chart at the bottom of this Tax Office Bulletin.

 

[Benjamin]

I seem to recall some time ago (last year?) someone posted that they had just sold their property and had taken all of their purchase/sale/renovation documents to their local tax office who then verified their CGT calculation. These figures were then accepted by the Notaire without any payment of this fee.

It is, after all, merely an insurance policy covering the Notaire if he/she makes an error in the CGT calculation.

[Tricia]

There could be other debts too that the seller has left behind eg taxes Hab.et Fonc. Outstanding amounts on the various checks of the house that the seller has to have done.

Just guessing here.

[Mr C]

[quote user="Tricia"]There could be other debts too that the seller has left behind eg taxes Hab.et Fonc. Outstanding amounts on the various checks of the house that the seller has to have done.

Just guessing here.

[/quote]

Sure - but isn't that the Buyer's responsibility to check, via the Notaire??

[Mr C]

[quote user="Benjamin"]I seem to recall some time ago (last year?) someone posted that they had just sold their property and had taken all of their purchase/sale/renovation documents to their local tax office who then verified their CGT calculation. These figures were then accepted by the Notaire without any payment of this fee.

It is, after all, merely an insurance policy covering the Notaire if he/she makes an error in the CGT calculation.

[/quote]

Thanks for that Benjamin - I'll try to find that post...  but this makes sense.

[Will]

Although, as SD says, the requirement for a fiscal representative is written in to the procedure, it's the same as many aspects of French procedure in that it isn't always followed. Plenty of sales go through without this, the notaire's own calculations being accepted by the tax office. It is a requirement nevertheless and the amount of gain (or loss) doesn't affect things unfortunately. The fee is based on the sale price, not the gain. 'Plus value' is merely the French term for CGT and doesn't necessarily imply that the value has actually increased.

It's well worth remembering that although many French tax people and tax offices are helpful and cooperative, even exercising a degree of laissez faire, there are others who insist on following the system to the letter, particularly when non-French nationals are involved. So it is something of a lottery, and just because a precedent has been set in one case it doesn't mean it can be followed in others. Maybe this shouldn't be so, but it is fact.