Jump to content

Recommended Posts

 I work and pay taxes here, my children are growing up here, one day they will probably marry a local girl or boy, and their children will be perfectly integrated. I cannot see the problem.

The thing about us Brits contributing to house inflation will run forever. However there is a second point to consider about 'integration'. You only have to read this forum to see how ready some of us Brits are to a) import from the UK whan there are perfectly viable local supplies and b) trade amongst ourselves rather than with the French.

Those were accusations thrown at other races who arrived into Britain many years ago, and integration really means economic integration as well as cultural.

 p.s. I am not talking about the odd pot of Marmalade so don't flame me on that ! Also I am not saying that we are all, always, guilty. Just pointing out how things can look.

Cheers all

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 154
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

There's one point on grants which I think has been missed here - though apologies if somebody else has already said so buried in the various side issues here.

I certainly wouldn't feel happy about taking a grant, even if it was offered, when there was obvious poverty around and far more deserving cases than a non-French run B&B.

However, what we are talking about here is not so much a grant as an investment. It may look like a gift on the face of it, but getting the money is dependent on attracting spending to the area, so there are strings attached - and they are very long and firmly-attached strings.

The terms and conditions vary between regions, but it is common to commit to several years (the figure 12 springs to mind here) of what amounts to control by the regional tourism authority and Gites de France of what you can charge (many British-run B&Bs would have to be pretty special to maintain their premium rates in direct competition with the French equivalents), when you can open or close, and where you should advertise.

So the questions of how well you think you have integrated into the community, or your rights as a taxpayer or EU citizen don't really arise, it's all down to the authorities who are once again after their pound of flesh. You will probably find that if you don't prove a good investment, the grant will be repayable, in part or in full.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have just come off the phone (their call to me)from France and where the local bar owner and his wife have congratulated us Welsh on our victory in the Stade de France yesterday.  We had a wonderful laugh over it and it now seems that the knives are well and truly out but not for us UK folk but for the French coach!

We have promised each other a few drinks when we are over next just after Easter.

Here a very simply story about trying to get involved with the French and their way of lives.  We have a wonderful neighbour and who is truly a character.  I treat her and her family with the utmost respect she responds accordingly and we chat away in our respective gardens talking about the various plants.

 

Last week she gave me some wonderful primrose plants (not the wild yellow ones) but some which she said were 'pas commerce' They were in the most wonderful colours and hues and I have never seen the like.

The next day I gave her some special lilly bulbs as a thank you for the primroses.

In the Manche and where we live life just goes on like that and on a daily basis.

Life is simple and values are strong.  I do understand some of the French problems but truly believe that we are making a net contribution to their way of life.  However and in some regard we could try harder for otherwise we could end up like the Brits on the Costas playing bridge and drinking G and T all day

 

regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will, the problem with your refusing a grant stance is to me simply that it will not help the poor in France 1 jot IMHO.

I have no reason to suspect that local politics and finance are not regulation ridden (just like the Uk) and the fact is that excess money in the 'tourism pot' will not suddenly find itself in the 'time to improve of the regions poor' pot.

Better to take the grant, do the work and add to the general wealth of the area.

As for people going to France to claim benefit - how many people really set out with this purpose in mind ? Some may not do their researches as carefully as they might but most people at least 'travel in hope'

Even if they do move and do claim benefit this is what France signed up to when it joined the EU, there is no special rule that says it applies to all members but not France !
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apart from tea which is cheaper to buy in big boxes, I always buy local, but I thought the EU was all about being able to buy one's car in Belgium, marmelade in Spain, sausages in Germany ... I'll be very glad when this Europe thing is all sorted out (won't see it in my lifetime probably), but wouldn't it be pleasant if people could live wherever they liked, buy what they like without having to justify it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Will, the problem with your refusing a grant stance is to me simply that it will not help the poor in France 1 jot IMHO.I have no reason to suspect that local politics and finance are not regulation r...[/quote]

This is my point exactly Gay.  Grants are given for specific reasons and not taking one that is offered for one kind of development does not mean that the money will be reallocated to something or someone more worthy. 

The other way of looking at this matter of non-French taking grants that would better benefit French people is this.  Does anyone on here truly believe that wealthy Parisian second-home owners would turn down a grant to help them do up their rural retreat?  I think not!!  However, because a lot of these grants of means tested, in terms of having to produce your tax return for the previous year, then if they are "wealthy" Parisians, they won't be eligible anyway.  And at the same time if a non-French (be they English, Welsh, Dutch or German) IS entitled because they meet the criteria then why not take it.  As I keep saying, they've paid their taxes......   

Perhaps some people here would feel guilty taking the money because they feel their income is too high to justify it.  I'm afraid I don't - that grant would be a big help to us and our business and if I am offered it, I shall take it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Foreigners buying property in clumps? Wake up and smell the roses, that has been happening in Britain for years. This lot don't know they're born, and I'm not trying to be rude or condescending, it's ...[/quote]

You mentioned statistics regarding children successfully integrating within french communities. Please elaborate, as we are currently searching for our permanent residence in france, and we have 3 young children, 8 months, 3 and 6. 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Kat,

Speaking from personal experience, your children are at a perfect age to emigrate to a foreign country. We moved here when our boys were 4 and 6 years, today (four years later) they are both bilingual and thriving at a french school. They perhaps still suffer from a slight lack of french vocabulary, but this will come quite naturally in due course.

They have had no problems at school with other children at all.

The only comment I would make is that we live three kilometres from the village and it is mainly by invitation that other children come to play here, whereas if you were to live in a village, other children would be in and out of your house as though it were their own.

Keep your children speaking English, as it forms a large part of the exams they will take later on. If they study another language at college, they could end up perfectly trilingual - what a gift!

If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

Best wishes

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We bought our house in Brionne 3 years ago. The Notaire, who was in Paris, said that he was glad English people were buying old property and helping to bring life back to rural France. This was a nice unsolicited comment for him to make and made us feel comfortable about our purchase. We have been very happy for 3 years with our holiday home. Love the area and love the people 

However as time goes by I have become more aware of a growing anti English feeling from a few French people. Most are polite, especially when spending money, and there have been no open hostilities to us. But when I compare this to how we talk in the UK about immigrants, asylum seekers, etc. I have to conclude that on balance the French remain a more tolerant nation than us.

It does though take the shine of the dream that we hoped we were living, add to this the guilty feeling of owning a second home while people remain homeless in the world, and I start to think about should I sell up. I did not bank on a both a moral dilemma and being the subject of unrest amongst locals. The more I read comments like those from Brittany, the uncomfortable I feel.

I could make the following points to those who object to our presence: French people sold us the house.-We spend money locally.- Its all Europe now.-ETC ETC. But if you have to justify your existence all the time, It suddenly becomes an effort rather than a pleasure to be there.

Maybe I need another holiday in Brionne to get me out of this mood

Thanks for listening

 

Paul

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We were hospital visiting at St Brieuc today & a nurse was chatting to us about the young English couple who had bought her grandmothers house & how les Anglais were injecting life into dying villages. She mentioned Callac & Plourac'h where she lives & how there were a tremendous amount of English all about her, but as long as they were people willing to renovate old & long empty properties & young families whose children would help keep the schools running, there wasn't a problem.

Nice to know isn't it!

Cheers

JayJay

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, for some reason, this has happened to a couple of my postings, it's decided to stretch itself.They're normal when they first go up then, Who Knows!? Let's see what happens to this!

Anyway, Brits are made of sturdy stuff considering what living conditions they put up with while renovating, good on em & good luck to them! Paradise found!

Cheers

JayJay

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
I see there was a feature on early morning TV today about a new Brittanny demo against house price rises and growing inability of locals to buy. Some say Brits are objects of resentment among locals but other locals state resentment is not directed at English second home owners. Local estate Agent (He is English - lived in Brittany for past 16 years) states that in his sixteen years he thinks rises are down to French greed and lack of integration attempts by British home owners - especially second home owners. This estate agent states he saw similar problems when he moved to Cornwall in 1972. Well I live in Cornwall and can testify to half empty villages in Winter and growing resentment at second home owners.Unlike the UK the French will probably heed these growing rumbles of discontent and do something to limit the canker of second home ownership.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I seem to have deja vu - postings are not only appearing twice they are appearing under different threads. I suppose it saves thinking time.

As you may gather my old root vegetable, I object to being referred to as a canker. Have you spoken to anyone in France about this? I have, and I have not heard or seen any signs of resentment. I'm not saying it doesn't exist somewhere, but I think to call it a canker is a bit rich.

As is so often the case we have a new poster with no info in their profile laying about them. Where are you, England or France? Do you know whereof you speak? And why Turnip? Low self-esteem?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah -Dick, why so smug. Yes I visit France on business often. I have French friends who talk of this "canker" ( words reported to them)which you, in your smug schoolmasterly type of way, try to deny. Make fun of my user name if you must - it will amuse your hangers on no doubt- but the rising clamour of resentment against second home ownership will continue to rise in line with house prices and local feeelings of powerlessness against the perceived British invasion. I hope it never happens but resentment could grow into practical protest where one sees holiday homes burnt down as they were in Wales. So, oh bearded one, you may make light of the issue but the debate ( hopefully it remains only debate) will not be so easily brushed aside. 

Yes, I have posted on more than one forum - I wish to inform as many people here and view as many opinions on the subject as is possible.If other people in other french departments have come across indications of a growing resentment of second home owners( bearing in mind that the French in the cities are buyers of second homes) I would be interested to learn of it. Unlike the pompous bearded one I will not attack or trivialise your replies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I saw the whole of the report about Bourbriac on News 24 this morning. I felt it was handled very well, unlike the Grauniad and Mail reports a few weeks ago.

The BBC report was just reacting to the newspaper pieces about the mini protest (local Brits reported a maximum of 20 protestors and were annoyed about the awful slant and misrepresentation of the actual facts by the UK journalists). The BBC put it across well and the Breton lass, semi retracted what the protestors had said, was a British problem but insisted that it was not only due to Brits, that wasputting the prices up and she didn't blame them for all the problems.

Personally, I have always thought that the thousands of empty properties in Brittany (and elsewhere) would simply stay derelict until someone had the courage (stupidity   ) to do them up and it just happens that many are bought by Brits looking for a new life. The choice being dereliction or restoration by anyone, I would have thought?

The estate agent was used mainly to tell folks that he felt they should learn to speak French and try to  integrate with the locals, thus making understanding of each other very simple and any confused issues could be easily discussed. Quite good points I think.

There are underlying issues but the Breton lass said, she felt the issues of a few weeks ago had not been aimed purely at the Brits but at French estate agents and an aside thought was aimed, I felt, at Parisiens (ennes).

All in all a fair report.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]sounds like a title to a film A Turnip on a Uni-cycle Dave[/quote]

or a christmas carol (a partridge and a turnip in a pear tree), or turnip in a partridge but not on a family forum.

And thanks for your comment MIKI which I think puts things into perspective.

Is it the press looking to sensationalise things in the name of sales?

or is their a genuine growth of resentment among locals looking to find scapegoats for rising prices?

Maybe a bit of both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

'smug', 'schoolmasterly'?

No, Turnip, disagreeing with you. That isn't a definition of smugness, but I'm afraid the tired cliché of your answer is. Not that you actually answered anything, of course.

You are, I believe, in Cornwall. You remember some 'problems' there some time ago (though a Cornish friend has no such recollection). You want a place in France 'for retirement' - but this might be a new build. You have read a report about some publicity-seekers in France, which as Miki has pointed out was NOT an anti-English rally. On the basis of this you say that you know more about what is happening in France than those of us who are there (albeit part-time until we get around to retiring). You refer to second-home owners as a 'canker'. That's pretty insulting, I would say.

And you have chosen a really cool root vegetable for a nom de web.

I'm beginning to wonder if we've met before...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...