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Bank checking client ID.. is it just us Brits?


Gyn_Paul
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A while ago I had a letter from my CA bank in Loire-Atlantique asking (no, 'demanding') I send them both our passports and justicatif de l'addres, so that they could 'confirm our identities'. Given that this is a bank who ignore recomandee letters and don't act on written instructions, I certainly didn't trust them to get the passports back to us in one piece, quite apart from the fact that I would be 8 or 9 euros out of pocket for the privilege of asserting I am who I was 7 years earlier, so I ignored the letter and the problem seemed to go away.

This week our local Banque Pop, rang me with the same request, so, we wasted an afternoon going through the same rigmarole. Despite my asking her to explain the reason for all this pantomime, I still have no clear idea as to why the bank which photocopied our passports and J de A's when we opened the account 5 years ago, needs to do it again ! We're obviously living at the same address (since she rang me) and I'm still me, with the same date of birth, so what will another passport photocopy prove?

Has anyone else been 'invited' by their bank to jump through these ludicrous hoops?

Slightly more worrying, she also asked for my (our) most recent tax return, which I'd not brought, so she has asked us to 'pop it in when we're next passing'. The more I think about this, the less inclined I am to do it. Our account is in credit (obviously) we have never had - nor asked for - any loan or mortgage, so why should I share details of my income, and tax affairs with the bank? I particularly hate the thought of that sort of info being photocopied and sitting in some file cupboard in the bank. Or worse yet, on a database. I just know that it will end up in the marketing department and I'll be bombarded with sales emails and literature trying to sell me insurance and 'investment opportunities' for the next year.  

My feeling is that if the banks want tax data about their clients, and - self-evidently - the impots. gouv.fr won't give it them, then I don't see why we should either.  Obviously, if I ever wanted to borrow money from them, then it would be a different matter, and I would give them the information; how else could they decide if I am a fit person to lend money to or not?  But just at the moment, what with them owing me money and all, I think I'll keep the form to myself.

I've asked a few people - both French and English - and we seem to be the only people required to prove themselves (so far) but it's fair to say my sample was statistically insignificant!

p.

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If it's any consolation, my UK bank contacted me last year, asking me to provide documents confirming my first name, as they claimed they had no record of it. As I've been banking with them since 1979, this came as something of a surprise, not least because that also precedes my marriage: after which I had to go in and give them my marriage certificate and my new signature. I also have a credit card from the same bank which clearly has my first name printed on it. I ignored their requests for quite a while, till they started to threaten me with closing my account. Eventually, when it was convenient to me, I went into a local branch with the required documents, and asked them if they could explain how such seemingly basic information could have eluded them for the best part of thirty-odd years. They couldn't.

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We have not had anything from our french banks, but IF we do, I shall tell them that I will give deal with it when we are in France.

Would that we had the choice to do other than use banks, because sometimes I do wonder about them!

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You should never send a bank your passport, as they require a certified true copy, which they will either do themselves if you take it into a branch, or you can get a lawyer or accountant to take and certify a copy for you that you mail to the bank. When certifying a copy passport legally you are required to do it in the presence of the passport holder so you can verify that the passport photo is of a true likeness. Therefore, if you sent the bank your original passport they cannot take a certified copy without you being there.

The other anti money laundering requirement is address verification which is usually achieved by sending the bank a utility bill less than three months old, or a certified copy of one.

These requirements have to be undertaken when opening an account and do not usually need to be repeated unless you change address or name through marriage for example. Sometimes a bank may ask for updated verification if there is a trigger event such as opening an additional account or applying for a mortgage.

The anti money laundering requirements imposed under the EU money laundering directive are becoming increasingly burdensome and intrusive.
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We have been with our CA bank where we live in France for over 20 years, they still ask for proof of ID for their records, money laundering is the reason they give. We also have to take in a copy of our French tax form each year for them to verify we are below the threshold for the LEP which is the higher rate platform limited savings account. As we do all our stuff on line I was interested to see how they accepted our own printed off copy of a very restricted Impôt form. Neither they nor the CPAM had seen it before but they have to accept it. According to the form, the government authorities have a system to allow them to verify the info. It would not take a computer genius to change the amounts on the form! They do scan the info and keep it on a Bank data base. That is why they like the originals, they just give them back to you.

We are legally French, so it applies to all. Am also a Brit and a UK tax payer, but neither of our UK banks (clients with them for over 30 years) will allow us to open up accounts for our children, despite having all the ID in the world to prove who they are. They provide no hoops at all to jump through!
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[quote user="You can call me Betty"]If it's any consolation, my UK bank contacted me last year, asking me to provide documents confirming my first name, as they claimed they had no record of it. As I've been banking with them since 1979, this came as something of a surprise, not least because that also precedes my marriage: after which I had to go in and give them my marriage certificate and my new signature. I also have a credit card from the same bank which clearly has my first name printed on it. I ignored their requests for quite a while, till they started to threaten me with closing my account. Eventually, when it was convenient to me, I went into a local branch with the required documents, and asked them if they could explain how such seemingly basic information could have eluded them for the best part of thirty-odd years. They couldn't.

[/quote]

Hi,

     Banks in both the UK and France are increasingly demanding this sort of thing; I am sure at least some of it is required by the government ("money-laundering" prevention), but I have received letters which included questions about my assets held in other banks and investment products - this is obvious fishing by the bank for marketing purposes, and I never reply to those types of question.

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I don't understand why people get so uptight about this. Banks have to run checks on their customers. As PaulT says, there are all kinds of scammers who want to move money around illegally. They're not accusing you of anything, they're just trying to keep their files up to date and in order, because if they don't they can be fined by the authorities. I don't suppose they do it for fun, It would be a lot easier for banks if they didn't have to bother, but the law says they must.
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[quote user="woolybanana"]Blame not the banks, they are just the messengers. This is the fisc at work, wanting to check who is where and if they are paying their kilo of flesh, and not hiding the widow's mite under the bed[/quote]

Oh Wools, I am sure that no one should be hiding any small child (whether they belong to a widow or not) under any beds?[8-)]

OH was asked for somthing similar a few years ago and the advice on the Forum was just to ignore the letter.  Apparently, the banks could ask (and they need to in order to "comply") but you needn't answer!

So, they must be tightening procedures then?

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Hello Sweetie Pie, you must be exhausted with all the house sorting.

Mr Sarkozy's characterization of the French State being like the Stasi is not too far off the mark, particularly when it comes to matters financial. They have always done it and always will.

Remember, they want your money
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[quote user="Sprogster"]You should never send a bank your passport, as they require a certified true copy, which they will either do themselves if you take it into a branch, or you can get a lawyer or accountant to take and certify a copy for you that you mail to the bank. When certifying a copy passport legally you are required to do it in the presence of the passport holder so you can verify that the passport photo is of a true likeness. Therefore, if you sent the bank your original passport they cannot take a certified copy without you being there.

The other anti money laundering requirement is address verification which is usually achieved by sending the bank a utility bill less than three months old, or a certified copy of one.

These requirements have to be undertaken when opening an account and do not usually need to be repeated unless you change address or name through marriage for example. Sometimes a bank may ask for updated verification if there is a trigger event such as opening an additional account or applying for a mortgage.

The anti money laundering requirements imposed under the EU money laundering directive are becoming increasingly burdensome and intrusive.[/quote]

You are quite right Sprogster, the original CA letter was asking me to organise a certified copy if I wasn't prepared to journey the 5 hours to Machecoul (44). - more expense !

As to the money laundering regulations, they are a laughable farce, as anyone in private or investment banking will tell you. Nobody, intent on laundering a stack of dubious money, is going to do it through a private bank account; too many transaction flags go up. It's bad enough when you move a chunk to buy a house, say. I guarantee if you transfer a heap of money into the country and leave it there sitting in an ordinary account, you will be lucky if you're not questioned about it if it stays there untouched across a f/y.   No, if you are in the Argent Blancherie business, you do it through a business account. Far more opportunities to bury transactions and movements.

I'm also quite sure that if I was a drug baron, looking to squirrel away a couple of million, I think I'd probably be up to obtaining a false passport and a good enough version of Photoshop Pro, to 'doctor' a tax form !

The various American agencies are quite capable of tracing the electronic footprints of any fund transfer which raises their interest ANYWHERE in Europe without any need for rural banks to photocopy customer's individual details.

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[quote user="woolybanana"]Blame not the banks, they are just the messengers. This is the fisc at work, wanting to check who is where and if they are paying their kilo of flesh, and not hiding the widow's mite under the bed[/quote]

If this is the fisc, Wooly, then I hardly think sharing the fisc's own form with the bank is going to help them much !

p

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[quote user="Sprogster"]You should never send a bank your passport, as they require a certified true copy, which they will either do themselves if you take it into a branch, or you can get a lawyer or accountant to take and certify a copy for you that you mail to the bank. [/quote]

Not at Credit Mutuel. I just scanned my passport and mailed it using their internal secure mailsystem . Problem solved in 1 minute.

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