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Maintenance payments.? Taxable?


Rosie
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Hello,I'm new here and am planning to move from Scotland to France soon with my 9 yr old . My divorce comes through next month and I will be living on my maintanence payments and whatever I make as and artist, perhaps also income from a gite. In UK I pay no tax as my maintanence comes from income my ex has already paid tax on. Do I pay tax on this in France and is there a figure below which you do not pay tax?
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 I do not know the answer to your question, but I shall ask a friend about it.

Firstly though, as I have a friend who has been in a similar situation, have you got your ex's permission to move your 9 year old to France? I really believe you need to get permission.

And the other thing is moving a 9 year old to France. I am wondering, is your child bilingual already, are you? As doing this is not something I would do. I know others have and it has been what it has been, sometimes it is successful, but certainly not always. I know you are not asking but I could not recommend it in any way, shape or form.

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Hello, firstly my ex is happy for my youngest to come with me and for my two eldest to stay with him until they have finished school/college. We are not bilingual yet though I can get by. My daughter is picking up the language through home study and we are watching French tv and listening to French radio to help us. If we are not fluent by December we will have a rethink. I do think she is a good age to move and as she is onfident and makes friends easily she will adjust.
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Fluent by December [8-)][8-)]

I have worked very hard at it for 9 years now, I have been in total immersion, no English is ever spoken in my home, I have refrained from having UK TV until only one month ago I have no English or English speaking friends in France (apart from one couple at the end of the phone) and I am nowhere near fluent, I get by, I understand everything, can read and compose letters in French but my speech capability is perhaps 20% of that of my comprehension.

I dont mean to seem harsh but talk of being fluent by December is crazy.

Can you be sure that your maintenance payments will always come through? I am thinking of accident, illness, unemployment not to mention the more frequent "cant pay wont pay" when relations break down. In the UK you will have the social security system to fall back on and to fight for your rights, its unlikely that you would have the same here unless you had made substantial contributions over a long period.

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We have friends who moved here with kids around that age. After a year in school they have no problem at all with the language, it's a different matter for the parents although they are progressing.

I would agree with Chancer your main concern should be finance.

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[quote user="Spyder"][quote user="idun"] I do not know the answer to your question.

[/quote]

Then you should probably mind your own business and refrain from asking personal questions and prying into other peoples business!

[/quote]

You quote selectively since idun added 'I will ask a friend about it'

She has a history of helping people with problems even going so far as to make phone calls to various agencies on others' behalf, so I would think she deserves a little more courtesy...

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From personal experience I wouldn't be put off bringing your 9 year old to live in France if the financial aspects stack up. All have differing experiences of their children's language assimilation and the French school system, but my son was 10 when we arrived and he followed the pattern predicted by most. He struggled with the language and making friends for about 9 months, consequently hated being here. Then it all clicked into place, he became very proficient in spoken French, now does well at school and has some very good French friends. He stated some time ago that although he likes visiting friends and family in the UK, he much prefers life in France. Can't guarantee it would be the same for your child, but if you don't try it you'll never find out.
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Spyder, really, there is far more to moving to France than a question about tax.

And do you know, IF I had bumped into this lady, where ever, and she had asked me that question in person, I would have said exactly the same thing as I said on my post and more.

I think that a personal income tax question is already rather 'personal' anyway. And there are a lot of things that people assume and don't realise that they don't know that they should know. I've been there and done that and am far from knowing 'everything', although I know a lot.

And something more important than tax is health care, especially as there is a child involved.

Then there is child benefit, now that will be odd one to sort out, none for one child in France, but there is more than one, but not living in France.

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Hi,me again.

Sorry, didn't mean to cause any trouble. yes, there are many things to consider but as this is the finance section I just wanted to know if the situation in France is the same as in UK, ie at home i don't get taxed on my maintanence. As my ex has managed to pay it on the dot every month for the last five years I have no reason why this should not continue. There is no ill feelings between us. I have been living on this income (roughly £24K p.a.) comfortably but for those of you concerned I have savings and have also been a professional artist for 30 years. I know I will have to pay health insurance, education insurance and social taxes, there is a lot to get my head around.All and any advice welcomed, we have enough funds to spend a year deciding if we want to stay for ever but want to get as involoved and as integrated as we can as this is something I have wanted to do for many many years.

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[quote user="Rosie"]Hi,me again.

Sorry, didn't mean to cause any trouble. [/quote]

You didn't, Rosie. Someone else tried to.

Idun moved to France with her OH in the... 80s, Idun? and subsequently her OH worked for a French company, they had children here (who are now adults) and they went through the French education system and one at least is still here. Idun and her OH reached retirement age and are now back in the UK. Anything she says is based on personal experience and you'll get her views, warts and all - which is what you want, really.

Good luck with your planning.

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[quote user="PaulT"]I do love it when people like Spyder, total posts currently 16, come on here and make a judgement about a long established member who has extensive knowledge of France.

Is this a refugee from FE? Let us hope there are no more![/quote]

Thanks PaulT, I didn't realise I had to have thousands of posts before I could criticise an "established" member who doesn't even live in France and just remembers what it used to be like or consults his/her French friends.

As for being judgmental, are you not doing the same? I have lived in France for over 20 years and been a member of this forum under a different name much longer than you have been posting.

Next time I want to reply to a post should I pass it by you first, just to make sure I don't upset you?

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Spyder I can only go on what I see and that was 16 posts. If you have been a member for a long time on here under another name then I would have thought that you would be aware of Idun and her straight talking but very helpful posts.

Your post:

'Then you should probably mind your own business and refrain from asking personal questions and prying into other peoples business!'

Is surely telling them you need to censor their posts.

No one should need the permission of another member to post but perhaps posts such as yours either need to be toned down or not posted at all.

So what was your previous forum name(s)?
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[quote user="PaulT"]I do love it when people like Spyder, total posts currently 16, come on here and make a judgement about a long established member who has extensive knowledge of France.

Is this a refugee from FE? Let us hope there are no more![/quote]i would like to extend a warm welcome to all the members who have come to us from FE.

Just because someone has very few posts does not mean that they do not know what they are talking about.
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[quote user="DraytonBoy"]1. We had to get written permission from my wife's ex husband to bring her children to France.

2. The child maintenance that he pays is subject to tax.[/quote]

Rosie I do hope you saw this relevant post by DB as I feel it might have got lost within the verbal bashing posts either side of it.

Sue

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[quote user="suein56"][quote user="DraytonBoy"]1. We had to get written permission from my wife's ex husband to bring her children to France.

2. The child maintenance that he pays is subject to tax.[/quote]

Rosie I do hope you saw this relevant post by DB as I feel it might have got lost within the verbal bashing posts either side of it.

Sue

[/quote]

I also linked to the relevant official French service public site.

If one has no helpful information to give think of Wittgenstein

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."
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[quote user="Rosie"]Hi,me again.

Sorry, didn't mean to cause any trouble. yes, there are many things to consider but as this is the finance section I just wanted to know if the situation in France is the same as in UK, ie at home i don't get taxed on my maintanence. As my ex has managed to pay it on the dot every month for the last five years I have no reason why this should not continue. There is no ill feelings between us. I have been living on this income (roughly £24K p.a.) comfortably but for those of you concerned I have savings and have also been a professional artist for 30 years. I know I will have to pay health insurance, education insurance and social taxes, there is a lot to get my head around.All and any advice welcomed, we have enough funds to spend a year deciding if we want to stay for ever but want to get as involoved and as integrated as we can as this is something I have wanted to do for many many years.[/quote]

You haven't caused any trouble at all. But for the amount of tax you might pay, there seemed a lot of other things to take into account which could be very costly.

Do a trial run based on last years income and then you'll get a rough idea of how much income tax you should pay.

http://www3.finances.gouv.fr/calcul_impot/2014/simplifie/index.htm

In

french terms that is one heck of a pension alimentaire, especially for

one child. I am not being 'funny', I wouldn't do that about this, but unless you start mixing with obviously very rich people,

then for all you have already mentioned it.............I would not mention amounts like that to the 'normal' population, as the truth is that lots of working couples would be hard pushed to earn that much between them. A

good friend was married to a rich man and when they divorced she got

330€ a month per child, she has two kids and that is the most I've known anyone to get to be honest.

Often house insurance covers education insurance, you'd need to check.

Social charges are quite something else, if you are working, then you will need to make sure that you only pay something relevant to your actual work and not get huge bills when you are not expecting them. See a good accountant.

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[quote user="Rosie"]Hello,I'm new here and am planning to move from Scotland to France soon with my 9 yr old . My divorce comes through next month and I will be living on my maintanence payments and whatever I make as and artist, perhaps also income from a gite. In UK I pay no tax as my maintanence comes from income my ex has already paid tax on. Do I pay tax on this in France and is there a figure below which you do not pay tax?[/quote]Yes you do because in France, maintenance is paid before tax (ie it's deductible for the person paying it).  Technically it shouldn't be as tax has already been paid on it in the UK so you may be able to argue that point or declare that it's already had tax paid on it somehow.  I never have because I've never had enough income to be taxable here.

Nine is a good age to resettle in France and easily pick up the language so I agree not to worry about that as long as you have enough money to live on, which it seems you have.

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[quote user="Debra"] Technically it shouldn't be as tax has already been paid on it in the UK so you may be able to argue that point or declare that it's already had tax paid on it somehow.  I never have because I've never had enough income to be taxable here.

[/quote]

That is a very interesting point. Surely that income would come under the double taxation treaty?

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You might think that that should be the case, but the DDT makes no direct reference to Maintenance payments and as such they are probably excluded from the treaty.

It might be possible to use article 23 section 1 which covers other income to gain an exemption, but frankly I would not want to argue the case with the fiscs even if I were completely fluent. And to be fair I have had to deal with the fiscs regularly and have found them most helpful, but here you would be asking them to push the interpretation of the treaty to the limit.
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That's why I said 'technically' because it's income from the UK and has already been taxed but I'm not sure how you'd go about proving that (or  how much tax had been paid) or arguing  the point.  With the sums the OP is talking about I'd certainly be prepared to find out though. 

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On the site I linked to before it says:

Montants à déclarer

Pension alimentaire

Vous devez déclarer la pension dans les conditions suivantes :

à hauteur de ce que la personne qui vous la verse peut déduire.

Détermination du revenu imposable

Dépenses déductibles

Dans certains situations, vous pouvez déduire des sommes reçues

certaines dépenses occasionnées par leur perception (par exemple, frais

de procès engagés pour le paiement ou la revalorisation d'une pension).

Abattement de 10 %

L'administration fiscale applique un

abattement

de 10% sur le montant total des pensions et rentes de votre

foyer fiscal.

L'abattement ne peut pas :

  • être inférieur à 377 € par pensionné,

Déclaration

Pour remplir votre déclaration de revenus, vous pouvez consulter la notice explicative ainsi que le guide de l'impôt sur le revenu.

Vous devez déclarer vous-même les pensions alimentaires car ces montants ne sont jamais pré-remplis.

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