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[quote user="mint"]I agree, Pommier and idun.  You can get combined smoke and carbon monoxide detectors.

Sometimes, if it's very cold, we use a poele à pétrole in the glassed-in veranda so I will get one of these combined thingies and have it installed on the ceiling of the main area of the veranda.

Last year, we didn't bother to use the poele as it was so mild and this year, I don't think it's even been dusted off.  Must be getting more resistent to cold!   

[/quote]

Hmm cO  putting that detector on the ceiling, cO detectors are better with he gauge so you can see if the levels are 0 or higher rather than an alarm you may not hear.

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[quote user="Théière"]

Hmm cO  putting that detector on the ceiling, cO detectors are better with he gauge so you can see if the levels are 0 or higher rather than an alarm you may not hear.

[/quote]

Thank you, Teapot, for the tip.

You do always come up with the goods![:)]

So, is it better to have the smoke detector on the ceiling and a separate gas detector somewhere on a wall?

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  • 2 weeks later...
DON'T BUY detectors with an ionising chamber and a radioactive

element. If you have one, you must replace it by the end of 2017. This

is from the INRS site

En France, de l'ordre de 7 millions de détecteurs de fumées

autonomes utilisent une chambre d'ionisation (détecteurs ioniques) dans

laquelle l'air est ionisé par les particules chargées émises par une

petite source radioactive. Ces détecteurs ioniques contiennent donc des

éléments radioactifs qui peuvent présenter un risque pour la santé en

cas de mauvaises manipulations.

Ces appareils doivent être

remplacés par des détecteurs (optiques ou thermiques) qui offrent les

mêmes garanties d'efficacité et ceci avant le 31 décembre 2017.

Les

entreprises détenant des DFCI ne doivent pas les manipuler, ni les

déposer, ni les jeter aux déchets. Elles doivent faire appel, pour les

déposer, à une société spécialisée, déclarée auprès de l'ASN (Autorité

de sûreté nucléaire).

Any body better at written French shed any light on this?

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[quote user="Théière"]DON'T BUY detectors with an ionising chamber and a radioactive

element. If you have one, you must replace it by the end of 2017. This

is from the INRS site

En France, de l'ordre de 7 millions de détecteurs de fumées

autonomes utilisent une chambre d'ionisation (détecteurs ioniques) dans

laquelle l'air est ionisé par les particules chargées émises par une

petite source radioactive. Ces détecteurs ioniques contiennent donc des

éléments radioactifs qui peuvent présenter un risque pour la santé en

cas de mauvaises manipulations.

Ces appareils doivent être

remplacés par des détecteurs (optiques ou thermiques) qui offrent les

mêmes garanties d'efficacité et ceci avant le 31 décembre 2017.

Les

entreprises détenant des DFCI ne doivent pas les manipuler, ni les

déposer, ni les jeter aux déchets. Elles doivent faire appel, pour les

déposer, à une société spécialisée, déclarée auprès de l'ASN (Autorité

de sûreté nucléaire).

Any body better at written French shed any light on this?

[/quote]

Old smoke detectors contained a radioactive source to ionise the molecules that make up air. I'm not sure that they have been made for some time now: certainly there will still be a lot of them about, but IIRC they need to be replaced after about 10 years anyway - and thus I suspect that a lot of those that are still around are out of date. They have to be handled as radioactive waste and should not be put in the normal waste collection. I seem to recall a case where a youth collected a large number of these and started taking them apart for the radioactive contents - not a good idea ...

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[quote user="mint"]Just had a quick look at Amazon and I can honestly say that it was not exactly an exciting prospect, having to buy any of these.

Anyone has any advice as to type, price, etc? If you check online retailers such as Conrad and Rue de Commerce you will find they have a very large choice.

I have an old UK one, of the radioactive kind, so am replacing it with an optical type. I have also bought a temperature detector type for the kitchen, but this does not meet EN14604. They cost, respectively, 14€99 and 17€99, but cheaper ones are also listed by both retailers above.

I just noticed that Amazon Fr is describing the temperature detector I bought as a "Détecteur de fumée et chaleur", and also inferring that it meets the requirements of the new law,  but this is untrue, as it does not meet EN14604.

There are units available for kitchens etc., which inhibit the smoke alarm unless a temperature increase is also detected, but these are rather more expensive, so I have opted for an optical type smoke detector in the central corridor and a heat detector in the kitchen.

Also, I believe that someone asked how many in a house and I don't recall reading any answers. The legal requirement here is one per house, but one each upstairs and downstairs, in hallway or other space leading to the other rooms is a good idea.

For example for my house, 2 beds, 2 sittings and 1 kitchen/diner:  would I need 5?

[/quote]
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Ionisation alarms are still being made because they work very well. I looked on google and the half life of the radioactivity is over 400 years so replacement after 10? sales ploy or miss information.  Levels of radiation are very low and around that of backround radiation most governments other than France allow them to be disposed of in domestic waste.

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[quote user="Théière"]Ionisation alarms are still being made because they work very well. I looked on google and the half life of the radioactivity is over 400 years so replacement after 10? sales ploy or miss information.

[/quote]

Replacement is recommended on the grounds of deterioration of  electronic components, and is mandatory in the USA every ten years.

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Anybody know how to dispose of them correctly? I have 2 defunct ones with a minisule dot of Americanium in each.

I couldn't find any info on how to dispose of them in France and the UK weren't very helpful, when I enquired at the Environmental Waste office I was told 'Chuck 'em in yer bin mate'

I didn't so I have them sitting in my garage, waiting 4000 years for all the radioactivity to disappear [:(]

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  • 3 weeks later...
I haven't read the whole thread so somebody else may have already posted this and, I don't know the date of the article so it may be out of date (which means you may want to sigh and ignore this post) but http://www.insurance.fr/blog/smoke-detectorsalarms-required-march-2015 seems to support the view that attestation is not required at least by this company.
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We had this notice from

our French insurance company this morning :

ALL

HOUSEHOLDS WILL REQUIRE TO BE FITTED WITH SMOKE DETECTORS

BY 8

MARCH 2015 !!!

 

Property owners and

occupants are responsible for the installation and/or the maintenance

of the detectors called DAAF ‘
Détecteur

Avertisseur de Fumée’ by this date.

It should significantly reduce the

unnecessary loss of life, prevent injuries and minimize damage by

alerting you to a fire as early as possible.

You will have to equip your property

with at least one smoke detector. Be certain :

  •  it conforms to the French

    norm NF EN 14604

  •  it is marked with the CE

    notation

  •  it emits a sound/alarm of

    at least 85 dB (A) audible at three metres

  •  it includes a power indicator.

For smoke detectors already

installed, you should verify that they comply to the new legislation

and replace accordingly.

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Yes, another alcohol detector in the car jobbie! Of course, insurance cover might well not be in force if no smoke alarm is in situ. We'll no doubt replace our old one that's been in place for 6 years or so. When we arrived back a couple of weeks ago it no longer worked, so rather than buy a new battery for it, we'll buy one with the French normes - I suppose those normes do exist?
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There is no French norme, its a total scam, there is a pan european norme EN whateverwasmentioned, I linked to some info earlier that showed that the NF packaging only meant that it complies with the EN..... or is alleged by the importer to do so, like all things in France its just a case of someone signing a bit of paper, I bet you a pound to a piece of **** that within a year you will see recall notices in all the grand surfaces and brico sheds for these "NF" smoke detectors.

If the French actually cared about safety and not creating jobs for pushing paper around, if they had something like the British Standards institution that tested stuff to the European normes, created their own often improved standards and if the label "NF" meant as much as a BSI kitemark then I would have some respect for them.

As it is all your smoke detector must have is a CE mark and all the far eastern sweat shops perfected putting those on everything that they make many years ago, it gives me as much confidence as NF on a product for which there is not one, for the authorities to endorse such marking further shows their utter disregard for public safety.

NF is nothing more than a marketting tool to sell budget products at a higher price. Yesterday I bought some toilette suspendus and a VMC, the €99 Leroy Merlin première prix one is not even on the shelf, when I insisted on buying a pair despite the vendeur first telling me it was rubbish and I should buy the €169 or €239 ones then admitted that they all had the same mechanism, WC pan, faceplate, the only difference was the bati and the seat, but its not NF monsieur, how can you trust it? Well it was made by the same manufacturer and 95% of it was identical, the two units they dragged out of the warehouse were so dusty they must have been there at least 5 years if not 10 so this NF rubbish really does make them money.

The €38 VMC in brico-depot, same manufacturer and spec as the NF marked one at twice the price, and what do you know they have now put NF stickers on the boxes of the cheaper one, the internals are identical.

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Chancer, do you really believe it's any different in the UK?

We used to import stuff for resale, from the UK into another EU country, produced elsewhere (of course - what the heck is produced in the UK [:(] )

They sent us a packet of CE stickers to put on everything.

It's actually just a complete load of b****x, in every country. Smoke and miroirs.

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They were in trouble with the EU over insisting that breathalysers had to be NF certified, contrary to free trade, can't see that insisting smoke detectors are NF certified is any different.

Arrogant stupid or both to assume that NF is a better or higher standard then anybody else's but that's the French for you !

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[quote user="nomoss"]Chancer, do you really believe it's any different in the UK?

We used to import stuff for resale, from the UK into another EU country, produced elsewhere (of course - what the heck is produced in the UK [:(] )

They sent us a packet of CE stickers to put on everything.

It's actually just a complete load of b****x, in every country. Smoke and miroirs.
[/quote]

No not at all, I clearly remember when CE marking came in for electrical Equipment, if it was tested all it did was to ensure that the product did not emit EMF that could disturb other Equipment, most stuff wasnt tested, the manufacturers who did submit stuff paid a fortune to have the right to put on the little sticker, I was installing burglar alarm systems at the time, all the imported stuff like the then £7 PIR detectors immediately had CE stickers on it, it took nearly 2 years for the UK manufacturers who I knew very well to get through testing and in theory they should not even have been selling their stuff during that time.

CE marking always was a scam as witnessed by all the passive no electrical products that suddenly became CE marked.

I dont suppose the B.S.I. is anything but a shadow of its former self but when I was a product designer it was a revered institution, as apprebnices in the drawing office we had to learn BS308, BS4500a and loads of others I cant even recall off by heart.

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Our elderly neighbour is on the ball about the new regulations; I popped in to see if she was OK as the wind was so awful the other day, and she was asking anxiously about smoke alarms, knew the date we 'have' to have them by etc. we'll get one for her when we get ours, and my husband will install hers.

Our son is arriving tomorrow; I'll ask him about smoke alarms and CE marks, as he works for one of the American companies in UK that test toys etc, and they are very hot on those, he's often out in China and HK at the factories. My BIL checks testing in the various labs and some food companies mainly in Europe. His favourite annual checks are in Scotland - lots of whisky when he's finished testing!
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[quote user="Théière"][quote user="gardengirl "]

Property owners and

occupants are responsible for the installation and/or the maintenance

of the detectors called DAAF ‘
Détecteur

Avertisseur de Fumée’ by this date.

[/quote]

So now we have a DAAF't situation

[/quote]

[:D]  [:D]

'Twas ever thus, but we now have proof!

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Yes, stickers.....

Reminds me of back in the 80s and someone wanted to return to the UK having spent many years living in Australia. He wanted to bring his car with him, an Australian supplied UK produced P6 Rover 3500. He contacted the relevant UK authorities about bringing it over and was told that it would need all sorts of testing if it did not have an 'E' sticker which naturally it did not. They were available to buy from Rover at the grand price of 3p. I bought one, sent it to him, he stuck it on his car and in it came with no problem.
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