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Questions on new Tax forms


Frailer
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I have a private UK pension and two UK OAP pensions (myself and my wife).

I have entered the totals in 1AS and 1BS of the form 2042K

I have UK bank interest which I have entered in 2TR of the 2042K

I have  entered the bank interest in Lines 222, 228 and 230 of the form 2047K

I have interest from ISA's which I have entered in 2GO in form 2047K.

To avoid  paying  (CSG etc)  in France on our UK OAP pensions, which box and on which form do I enter the totals of our two UK State Pensions?

Finally  have I missed transferring any of the above totals to any other boxes on the forms?

Thanks in anticipation for any help with these newly formatted Tax forms.

John Watson

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The two OAPs should be included the total in 1AS on 2042K.

On the other hand 'To avoid  paying  (CSG etc)  in France on our UK OAP pensions' you need to indicate that you are

'

Form 2042, Page 2, bottom, Insert  "Titulaire de formulaire S1, donc pas a la charge de l'Assurance Maladie"

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[quote user="Frailer"]I have a private UK pension and two UK OAP pensions (myself and my wife).

I have entered the totals in 1AS and 1BS of the form 2042K 

I have UK bank interest which I have entered in 2TR of the 2042K

I have  entered the bank interest in Lines 222, 228 and 230 of the form 2047K

I have interest from ISA's which I have entered in 2GO in form 2047K.

To avoid  paying  (CSG etc)  in France on our UK OAP pensions, which box and on which form do I enter the totals of our two UK State Pensions?

Finally  have I missed transferring any of the above totals to any other boxes on the forms?

Thanks in anticipation for any help with these newly formatted Tax forms.

John Watson

Hi,

    Bank interest should be entered at 2TR on 2047.  I think you should add to this the ISA interest also in 2TR.

    As said send copy of S1 and put a note on the forms.

   

[/quote]
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Thank you NormanH and Parsnip for your inputs.

Norman your reply seems to be incomplete "you need to indicate  that you are"  ???

I am assuming from your replies that the totals of our OAP state pensions do not need to be inserted anywhere else other than boxes 1AS and 1Bs and that the note you mentioned  will exonerate them from CSG charges.

The thing that still puzzles me is that my Private Pension is also included in the total in box 1AS, and this is not exepmt from CSG charges (or is it?). How will the taxman know the totals of our state pension if they are not broken out seperately somewhere?

Thanks for your help.

JW

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You know what, it would be SUCH a good idea for someone to totally re-haul or preferably start afresh with the old sticky on filling in French tax forms.

As the advice on that was that the pink form is only a sort of worksheet to help you with filling in the blue form, I'd managed to totally ignore it until this year when I have been sent it!

Having never bothered with it before, it was only late last night when I realised what people were talking about when they referred to lines 222, 223, etc etc.  Because I determined to get the return finished, I burnt the midnight oil and, for the FIRST TIME EVER, I noticed that all the line numbers were on the pink form.....I'd say LOL except it was no laughing matter as I completely, in the words of OH who is of an older generation and is not prone to using "current" colloquialisms, I "lost it big time".

How could I have been so obtuse?  Well, I don't really know when or how I have arrived at this level of inaptitude........but, ye gads, it's not a comfortable place to be in[:-))]

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I am probably being a bit thick here but I still don't understand. My question is less complicated in that by wife and I each have a UK state pension and I have a private (company) pension.

 

Firstly - Do I add our two state pensions together or are they entered individually into 1AS (Me) and 1BS (Wife) on forms 2042K and 2047K?

 

Secondly - Do I add my private pension to my state pension and put combined figure in 1AS?

 

Now a couple of questions. On (pink) form 2047K  and (blue) 2042K what does "Pensions de Retraite en Capital taxable a 7,5%" (Boxes 1AT and 1TB) mean and what is it used for?

 

I was told to use Banque de France for the exchange rate, is this as good a place as any? If so should I use the date the money went in the bank or should I use either "Month-end Rates" or "Monthly Average rate"?

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I can't answer your questions in full CT but I do understand that being puzzled by all this stuff is nothing less than horrible so I will tell you what I do know.

To your first question, YES, you are déclarant 1 therefore 1AS and Mrs CT is the other one.

I don't know about private pension but if the pension is paid out of an annuity, then you put it under rentes viagères, choosing the correct column for your age when it was first paid.

I use the daily BdF rate and use the relevant rate on the day the money hits our bank accounts in the UK. 

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[quote user="mint"]I can't answer your questions in full CT but I do understand that being puzzled by all this stuff is nothing less than horrible so I will tell you what I do know.

To your first question, YES, you are déclarant 1 therefore 1AS and Mrs CT is the other one.

I don't know about private pension but if the pension is paid out of an annuity, then you put it under rentes viagères, choosing the correct column for your age when it was first paid.

I use the daily BdF rate and use the relevant rate on the day the money hits our bank accounts in the UK. 
[/quote]

 

Almost there, thanks for getting back so quickly.

 

Do I include the £10 Christmas bonus?

 

The private pension is paid by "Drawdown" as opposed to an annuity, any thoughts?

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I put down the Christmas bonus of 10 quid each with our state pensions.  At least no more WFA to be calculated and added on........hm mixed blessing so don't know whether to put on a smiley or a sad face!

Drawdown suggests annuity but I cannot speak with certainty or authority.  Wait a bit and Parsnips or someone else in your position might come and tell you definitively.

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As a newbie regarding income tax declarations in France I'm a bit flummoxed by the fact that you mention different forms from the ones I was presented with at the tax office - forms 2042 and 2047 i.e. minus the "K" at the end. If you or anyone else can reassure me about this and help me fill in the right boxes on the forms I've got I'd be eternally grateful. I'm an OAP with UK and German state pensions plus a bit of interest from savings and investments.

Regarding exchange rates, I understand that the officially recognised average 2015 rate is 1.37 (GBP EUR).

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Oh dear - I used 1.32, but too late now, it's gone in.

Now I come to think of it , there's nowhere on the form to say the exchange rate you use.

I've been filling the forms since 2003 and still get into a panic until it's done. We do a UK tax return too, online in Jan., so that helps a bit.

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[quote user="Patf"]Oh dear - I used 1.32, but too late now, it's gone in.

[/quote]

1.32 or 1.3207 or 1.322 is what I have seen all over the place so I think you are more right than wrong.

As there is no official exchange rate - other then the definition of using the ECB £ to € exchange rate for the day the funds hit your UK bank account - then you can use whatever rate you can justify to the tax people, if you were to be asked.

Sue

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As I mentioned before I was led to believe you use the exchange rate as per Banque de France on the day. Mint confirmed this was correct, see her post below when she answered my questions. However that may not be when the conversion to Euros actually took place. I know this because using BdF exchange rates I got less than I really got on my bank statement on a couple of occasions. Actually none of the amounts that went into my bank account matched the BdF rate, sometimes more, sometimes less but overall it worked out about right.

 

The average rate from 1st Jan 2015 to 31st December based on UK state pension payment dates works out at 1.3762 Euros. Using the BdF monthly averages for 2015 the average yearly rate was 1.377395 Euros so the figure of 1.32 is way out and to your advantage. Actually only in January 2015 was it below 1.32, the rest of the months it was over to well over. You probably didn't really want to know that, lets hope nobody works it out when they check your tax form. [:-))]

 

There are two scenarios giving two different answers as far as I can see. If you have your full pension paid directly to your French bank account then use the figure direct from your French bank statement. If you have it paid to your UK bank and then transfer it to your French bank account you can either use the rate they used on the day (it must be written somewhere) or the BdF rate.

 

Unfortunately we never joined the Euro, it would have been so much simpler doing these sorts of things (Helmet on).

 

https://www.banque-france.fr/en/economics-statistics/rates/exchange-rates.html

 

You will need MS Excel or something that reads MS Excel files to read the rates. It gives the End of Day rate for each day from the time the Euro became legal tender in France. Use the "Find" option in MS Excel (or whatever) to find the date you want. Don't forget there are no weekend dates.

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[quote user="Cathar Tours"]

As I mentioned before I was led to believe you use the exchange rate as per Banque de France on the day.

The average rate from 1st Jan 2015 to 31st December based on UK state pension payment dates works out at 1.3762 Euros. Using the BdF monthly averages for 2015 the average yearly rate was 1.377395 Euros so the figure of 1.32 is way out and to your advantage.

https://www.banque-france.fr/en/economics-statistics/rates/exchange-rates.html

 [/quote]

Having been told years ago by the tax office to use ECB exchange rates, I am happy to stick with my calculation from 02 Jan 2015 to 31 Dec 2015.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/eurofxref-graph-gbp.en.html

Sue

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Actually the BdF and ECB rates are exactly the same if you check (I just have). Therefore the average yearly rate on UK State pension pay day is the same 1.37€.

 

If you used the graph and not the data then it's difficult and you may have accidently made an error. One thing is for sure it was not an average of 1.32 over the year. As there is no provision on the tax form to put the amount in Sterling I doubt they will check although if you have the money put directly into your French bank account they can. I am not an expert (by far) on French tax forms but I know a bit about money.

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Talking of State Pension payments, when I declared my German pension in the UK it was the correct thing to do to deduct 10% before entering the amount on the form.

Does the same - very welcome - rule apply to foreign pensions here in France?

Hopefully,

Liz
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I found that when I tried to download a copy of the forms there was no K on them. This might be because it's for new people. After the first one, you get sent the forms by post each year. And they have a K on!

I just wanted a spare because it's easy to make mistakes, and to have a copy of what I put, for next year.
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It seems horribly complicated to check bank rates on the days money is received. Our state pensions are paid four-weekly but not both on the same dates and OH's teacher's pension monthly on 27th. That's a lot of checking!

I thought the tax office came up with an exchange rate for the year, but I can't find anything on their website.

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Our local tax office put a notice up just inside the door with the pound euro rate to use so you could check your one.

Our OAPs come at four weekly intervals but luckily two weeks apart. We know what we would have received in pounds for the whole year so add up the whole year in the euros we have actually received and then work out the average rate from that. We don't do it every month. It is always very close to the local tax office rate. We then use whichever rate (ours or tax office) is the marginally better on our other income.

The tax offices seem to do this on a local basis not centrally.

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[quote user="Blodwyn"]It seems horribly complicated to check bank rates on the days money is received. Our state pensions are paid four-weekly but not both on the same dates and OH's teacher's pension monthly on 27th. That's a lot of checking!

I thought the tax office came up with an exchange rate for the year, but I can't find anything on their website.[/quote]

So, you only have 3 lots of rates a month so not exactly onerous.  We have our state pensions, OH has 2 annuities and I have a local govt pension, so a minimum of five a month plus a bit of interest on 31 March, etc.

I don't know if you knew Cooperlola when she was alive but she used to note the dates on a diary and write down the amounts in euros and, at the end of the year, she'd just add up all the figures.

Alas, despite her most encouraging urgings, I never got round to being so organised! However, I start my work sheet early (and no, not even on the computer) and I do say 15 minutes or so each session, so quite a nice excuse to sit at a desk and have a 'do not disturb' expression on and, in a surprisingly short time, everything's ready to be entered into the actual forms.

Well, that's the theory except that this year I lost my work sheet and I cried for half an hour after turning the house upside down with no worksheet in sight![:-))]

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The form seems to ask for gross income, and the pension obviously reaches the bank after deductions so we still need to convert from sterling.

It still seems much simpler to use one conversion rate than to check bank rates 38 times a year!

I promise myself that I'll get the form done before the deadline next year.

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