My new baby!

[Meg]

The origins of this were about the lambs and i found it all very interesting. We hope to get some sheep next year so it is nice to hear a real story. Mistakes may be made and that is good as others can learn from them. It was also interesting to see peoples reactions to the lambs being reared for meat. And now, again about the ram, many interesting points have been raised. Also a lot of people have given some very valuable information on here, so again a shame if it all ends up lost, for the sake of disagreeing or not understanding how others live. It has also highlighted the need for a possible new section.

So then, back to sheep/lambs...........??

[Hoddy]

Powerdesal - I must make it clear that I am no expert on sheep rearing - I have been hoping all along that someone with genuine commercial experience would contribute. I'm sure we've had farmers on the forum in the past.

As I understand it, if you don't want ewes to have multiple births ( which you usually don't in their first year) you don't feed them too well before putting them to the ram. It doesn't stop multiple births - just discourages them.

I'm still hoping that Chris will change his mind about slaughtering this animal himself.

Hoddy

[Meg]

[quote user="Hoddy"] I have been hoping all along that someone with genuine commercial experience would contribute. I'm sure we've had farmers on the forum in the past.[/quote]

Could be because this is in the lounge??? Yes it is a shame though.

[WJT]

[quote user="Meg and Mog"]The origins of this were about the lambs and i found it all very interesting. We hope to get some sheep next year so it is nice to hear a real story. Mistakes may be made and that is good as others can learn from them. It was also interesting to see peoples reactions to the lambs being reared for meat. And now, again about the ram, many interesting points have been raised. Also a lot of people have given some very valuable information on here, so again a shame if it all ends up lost, for the sake of disagreeing or not understanding how others live. It has also highlighted the need for a possible new section.

So then, back to sheep/lambs...........??




[/quote]

Meg and Mog, I see your point in making the comment about mistakes being made. There have been many here that have tried to offer Chris advice because he has allowed himself and his animals to get into a bad situation because of inexperience or just not investigating before embarking on such a thing.

 However, putting the cruelty issue aside which obviously a few here are not concerned about, it is an illegal act. If as you have said a few times on this thread that you want to integrate into the way of French life, I do hope that you would not advocate an illegal act and act illegally yourself. I assume that you meant integration in the proper way not twisting the term to make it suit when convenient.

Edit: Perhaps you are right about the thread being in the Lounge and the thread has not been serious enough for you. Perhaps if we had a French authority stating the facts on this thread about the legalities it could be taken more seriously by you.

[Meg]

If as you have said a few times on this thread that you want

to integrate into the way of French life, I do hope that you would not

advocate an illegal act and act illegally yourself. I assume that you

meant integration in the proper way not twisting the term to make it

suit when convenient.

Sorry WJT where was i saying this?? It's a long thread and been going a while.

[Tresco]

Surely there were no real protests about the lambs being reared for meat, Meg?

Chris casting anyone who has suggested an alternative to his proposed method of slaughter as apero sipping townies is so unfair. Both Hoddy and Coops clearly have some experience of animal husbandry, and their proposals have been ignored completely.

Right from the very start of the thread, the ram has been described as 'psychotic'... 'lunatic'... 'dangerous' and Chris mentioned various injuries inflicted by the ram, throughout the course of the thread too.

I'm bewildered as to how Chris thinks he can walk up to this ram and kill it with a clean shot.

 

 

 

[Hoddy]

Exactly Tresco. The ram is not a psychotic lunatic he is behaving as rams behave. You can't blame him for that.

I think that raising your own meat is an entirely laudable thing. It's just that I think you ought to learn a few things about it before you start. If you get it wrong it's the animals that suffer, not you.

Chris didn't begin with the intention of raising his own meat though; the sheep were purchased as lawnmowers.

Hoddy

[WJT]

I do hope Chris listens to Tresco and Hoddy.

Meg and Mog, my apologies, I have read back through the posts, you did not say anything about integration. I confused it and had this in mind with some comments you made in regards to accepting local behaviour on cruelty.

[Chris Head]

Of course we've made mistakes having never kept sheep before. I'm most certainly not ignoring anybodies advice nor am I scoffing the experience available here. I read, digest and then make my mind up, nothing I've read so far has caused me to want to do anything differently.

When the sheep were sheared by a neigbouring farmer and his son, predictably they had a real struggle with the ram, at the time they both said 'kill it', and offered to do it on the spot, it wouldn't have been a clean shot, he would have had his throat cut as is the tradition here. Who on earth would drive around the masses of small farms in the region, and indeed the country telling farmers how or how not to dispatch the various animals they keep? At the same time perhaps the tax inspectors should pop in and investigate the thriving cash sales of many of these animals, and then there's health and safety, surely the public are being put at risk by animals being cut up in non sanitary conditions?

The whole thread has become much too over emotional, shouting loudly about laws doesn't change anything in my head nor would it change anything about the lives of many who do the same thing. I repeat, my intentions are practical and honest. Nothing anybody will say will take away my intention to see the whole cycle through, that's life guys. The rest of the information is great.

If anybody wants to let off steam then do it by PM, you have my word I'll take it on the chin and the report button won't be used.

Let me just say, I completely understand the opposing points of view, and respect everbodies right to have their opinion, I don't have the slightest bit of anger or malice toward anybody who feels the way they do.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="Hoddy"]Powerdesal - I must make it clear that I am no expert on sheep rearing - I have been hoping all along that someone with genuine commercial experience would contribute. I'm sure we've had farmers on the forum in the past.

As I understand it, if you don't want ewes to have multiple births ( which you usually don't in their first year) you don't feed them too well before putting them to the ram. It doesn't stop multiple births - just discourages them.

I'm still hoping that Chris will change his mind about slaughtering this animal himself.

Hoddy[/quote]

Hoddy,

Thanks for the reply, I cant claim to be a Farmer, or even an ex-Farmer, lots of smallholding experience though. We only had a flock of some 30 ewes. As I said we raised Jacobs, for our own meat and for friends / family. I have to say that I did not do the killing of the lambs but am not going to get involved in that side of the "discussion". Suffice to say that I do know about weapons ( weapons instructor at one point in my life + Bisley full bore etc). The general target is of course twins as ewes have two teats, some ewes can handle twins in the first year, it depends on feed / condition. We always aimed for spring lambing, indoors, before giving good grazing on spring grass. Triplets happen but not that often and usually the third can be 'fostered' onto a singleton, or hand reared / sold on etc. In fact the triplet is usually a good one for selling on as are mollys. I totally recommend Jacobs as they are very lean tasty meat. The pure Jacob does take a long time to fatten and cross breeding with (say) a welsh mountain / Dorset horn cross bred ram improves the fattening time dramatically without too much flavour trade off. We even converted friends who had stopped buying supermarket lamb because of the lack of flavour. Jacobs are serious escape artists but are great sheep. Our WM/D ram ( called Shadrach) took great delight in hitting you from the back, particularly if you had ignored him in the field. Not much fun when you have an electric fence battery in your arms, but the 'smile' on his face made you forgive him. We lost him to rustlers which was quite upsetting.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Chris Head"]

The whole thread has become much too over emotional, shouting loudly about laws doesn't change anything in my head nor would it change anything about the lives of many who do the same thing. I repeat, my intentions are practical and honest. Nothing anybody will say will take away my intention to see the whole cycle through, that's life guys. The rest of the information is great.

[/quote]

I got off this thread when it was clearly getting out of hand. Someone posted that you had dug a big hole for yourself and you should put it to bed. I think that was very good advice.

I know that hindsite is a wonderful thing but I really think that you should ask yourself whether this posting was appropriate for an open forum, given that you have the intelligence to understand just what an emotive issue it would become.

[Chris Head]

[quote user="Gary aka Bugbear"][quote user="Chris Head"]

The whole thread has become much too over emotional, shouting loudly about laws doesn't change anything in my head nor would it change anything about the lives of many who do the same thing. I repeat, my intentions are practical and honest. Nothing anybody will say will take away my intention to see the whole cycle through, that's life guys. The rest of the information is great.

[/quote]

I got off this thread when it was clearly getting out of hand. Someone posted that you had dug a big hole for yourself and you should put it to bed. I think that was very good advice.

I know that hindsite is a wonderful thing but I really think that you should ask yourself whether this posting was appropriate for an open forum, given that you have the intelligence to understand just what an emotive issue it would become.

[/quote]

Well Gary the thread did start, and it did continue, what am I supposed to do, run away and hide and pretend the whole thing wasn't happening? Or shy away from some of the more vociferous comments? That's not my way. It'll get put to bed naturally in the way threads do.

What hole? Forums are for discussing emotive issues. The subject is no more or less valid that fosse septiques are, it's common life for many many folk here.