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woody2122
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Why would someone make secret donations to people in political partys, do they get a prize or somthing and why do these MPs except these donations then get sacked when it hits the news, I thought MPs enjoyed there jobs (sorry for posting on here, I dont know any other forums for UK things unless someone can recomend) 

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[quote user="Russethouse"]Perhaps because they may want or need a favour, (planning for example, or some other project they need support for) and hope to gain advantage this way, by doing it through a third party it isn't so obvious ?[/quote]

Except that the recipient did not know (and he checked) the identity of the donor.

So the simple knee-jerk cynical Daily Mail response doesn't really wash.

If you found yourself in an awkward position would YOU like to get some benefit of the doubt - or at least that someone would take a quick glance at the circumstances before accusing you of dishonesty?

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If you Google something like, "Peter Hain Secret Donations", then you will find a list of the main donors.

And if you search further, then you'll discover that they mainly belong to what is called a "Special Interest" group; and Mr Hain is also a member.

You will also find the gentleman in Newcastle involved in yet another furore about hidden donations, made via unwitting third parties is also a member of that group.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the UK or its management, BTW.

Anyone who really thinks that extremely wealthy people give large sums of cash to political causes simply out of a desire to good good, or something, really urgently needs to consult a reasonably competent analyst!

 

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In case Dick Smith has read only the Daily Mail or the Mail on Sunday, the story was carried in both the Sunday Times and the Observer as well.

Surely the point is that in the current climate the donation is likely to be suspect at least. And frankly, the idea of a proxy donor just does not ring true. Though whether politicians should be assumed to be guilty until proved innocent is another matter.

Then, why are candidates for the deputy leadership of any party spending what appear to be huge sums in campaigning.[6]

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Oh dear. Timothy has missed his medication again...

Is Gluestick's cryptic remark meant to imply that Peter Hain is Jewish and that there is some sort of Zionist conspiracy going on? Otherwise I just don't understand.

Incidentally, Tag, I know PH and he's a pretty honest and straight man. A lot of integrity.

And intelligent.

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Whether these two politicians are honest or not I do not know, Dick. However, they would appear, on the facts that have been allowed to come out, to have become involved in something which may be illegal and, perhaps through omission, have tarnished their reputations. In the context of a number of incidents over tha last years, beginning perhaps with the million quid bung from Mr. Ecclestone, is it surprising that they should be suspected? ( Would you please notice my use of  'hedging' to express the complexities of the debate.)

I cannot judge their intelligence.

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Many years ago...when I first started out in life as a Governement Servant ..I recall it being impressed upon us the seriousness of  allowing ourselves to be put in a position where people might offer gratuities.... and what wrath would decend upon us if we accepted  . I will never forget the answer that was given to us by one of our old time bosses in the Adelphi building when asked to state what would be defined as a gratuity ...He said he would   "not expect us to accept as much as a cigarette or a cup of tea ! "  Oh that those running the country today might follow the same advice .....
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[quote user="Dick Smith"]
Is Gluestick's cryptic remark meant to imply that Peter Hain is Jewish and that there is some sort of Zionist conspiracy going on? Otherwise I just don't understand.

[/quote]

No cryptic message or meaning meant.

However, perhaps Mr Smith would please explain just how Mr Hain's membership of a group not directly connected with governing the United Kingdom and whose members have contributed so much in political funds over the years and to what purpose, can be taken by us simple country folk?

Perhaps he would then like to explain why a number of prominent billionaires attend a dinner at number 10 Downing Street,  in elections periods, irrespective of which party is in power and contribute millions? As a hint, they are all non-resident and want their favoured tax status to continue........................

Perhaps he would also like to synthesise the connection between one Mr Abrahams, of Newcastle and his covert donations via one employee and one of his builders and his planning consent for a £50 million development? Which the local authority and residnets and voters and taxpayers were totally against.

If Mr Peter Hain is, I quote "Intelligent" then heaven help us!

Of course, Neil Hamilton didn't actually pose any cash for questions: and that doyen of philanthropy, Mohamed Fayed who in another case (his action for defamation) stated under oath that he did indeed give Hamilton cash for questions, was lying.

And Hamilton's paymaster wasn't running a bent political lobbying outfit, disguised as a PR organisation.

It's all scaremongering by the Daily Mirror!

Give me strength.............................[:(]

 

 

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[quote user="Dick Smith"]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

Perhaps because they may want or need a favour, (planning for example, or some other project they need support for) and hope to gain advantage this way, by doing it through a third party it isn't so obvious ?

[/quote]

Except that the recipient did not know (and he checked) the identity of the donor.

So the simple knee-jerk cynical Daily Mail response doesn't really wash.

If you found yourself in an awkward position would YOU like to get some benefit of the doubt - or at least that someone would take a quick glance at the circumstances before accusing you of dishonesty?

[/quote]

Hang on - do I misunderstand: he checked, but was unable to indentify the donor and took the money anyway? Or he was fibbed to as to the indentity of the donor? Just to be clear. If it were the former then that strikes me as a very silly thing to do. The latter, then OK he was fibbed to - not his fault.

It is all a bit sordid, this donating lark. Public funding for politicos might be an idea whose time has come.

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He (or his people) checked that the person donating was a) on the electoral register and b) a Labour party member. He was. He just hadn't told anyone that his brother had given him the money. They did all they had to under the rules as far as I can see. From the way the Labour Party has responded I should think they are waterproof on this.

Your second point - correct I think - but will the public stand for paying these expenses out of taxes? Remember that although parliamentary candidates get some expenses (such as free postage for election addresses) party elections have no such concessions. In the course of the Labour deputy leadership elections I got  number of mailshots from most of the candidates, that costs money.

That said, they didn't make a lot of difference, and were all pretty much of a muchness. Very uncontroversial. A lot of the money raised (and don't forget all parties have been in trouble over this) must go to lobbying, travel expenses, clerical and other staff, so I can see how you could spend 100K on it. Whether or not there should be a cap is another matter.

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[quote user="Dick Smith"]

He (or his people) checked that the person donating was a) on the electoral register and b) a Labour party member. He was. He just hadn't told anyone that his brother had given him the money. They did all they had to under the rules as far as I can see. From the way the Labour Party has responded I should think they are waterproof on this.

Your second point - correct I think - but will the public stand for paying these expenses out of taxes? Remember that although parliamentary candidates get some expenses (such as free postage for election addresses) party elections have no such concessions. In the course of the Labour deputy leadership elections I got  number of mailshots from most of the candidates, that costs money.

That said, they didn't make a lot of difference, and were all pretty much of a muchness. Very uncontroversial. A lot of the money raised (and don't forget all parties have been in trouble over this) must go to lobbying, travel expenses, clerical and other staff, so I can see how you could spend 100K on it. Whether or not there should be a cap is another matter.

[/quote]

Well, there's no case to answer. Quite why anyone would want to donate money for an internal party matter I cannot understand, but I cannot see that this chap himself is to blame. Must have been a slow news day...

Quite a lot of European nations already have public funding above a certain level, do they not? France for one...I must look into how they sold this to the tax payers. I can't imagine UK tax payers taking it calmly somehow.

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I would have thought that one free mailshot to party members would cover it. Then, if the candidates want to schmooze union leaders/business leaders/whoever the Lib Dems schmooze (???) they can do it out of their own pockets/a few K. I think it must be hiring help and lobbyists that eats the money.

But I can't see the British public settling for election expenses/party expenses let alone money for internal elections. If you could get the parties to agree on the sums involved, which I doubt.

And it's very odd the way party funds go up and down. All parties.

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[quote user="Dick Smith"]I would have thought that one free mailshot to party members would cover it. Then, if the candidates want to schmooze union leaders/business leaders/whoever the Lib Dems schmooze (???) they can do it out of their own pockets/a few K. I think it must be hiring help and lobbyists that eats the money.

But I can't see the British public settling for election expenses/party expenses let alone money for internal elections. If you could get the parties to agree on the sums involved, which I doubt.

And it's very odd the way party funds go up and down. All parties.

[/quote]

And banks lend them money. Against what? Most of them don't own property any more, they don't manufacture anything and their only income seems to be subs and donations. Perhaps now that banks aren't lending to any one who walks through the door the UK parties could find themselves very badly off indeed. Which could raise some interesting problems when the polls come around. The real reason that Mr B held off on the snap election? We should be told.[:)] They'll be out with collection tins next. Do political parties have charitable status?

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The Tories now have their (rented) HQ over a Starbucks in Victoria Street... Looks very odd when the minders are gathering.

I think that the banks know that someone will eventually bankroll any poliitical party. But as you say, times may be changing.

Parties don't have charitable status, but the Labour Party has suggested it.

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Am I correct in believing that in Germany a system exists whereby the number of votes cast determines the amount of financial assistance parties can expect from the public purse .......... and as a result a right wing party has now gained  local seats and is likely to gain more ? If so such a system can be a great advantage to parties who can urge their supporters to the polls in order to gain  funding ....so this way  the tax payer ends up paying for them to gain power do they not ?
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