IB

[Benjamin]

Sent a very polite covering letter with Mrs Benjamin's completed DLA claim form back in April basically acknowledging that we understood it may be some time before this matter is sorted but asking if, in the meantime, they would acknowledge receipt of the claim.

Nothing back from them so this Monday I emailed them ([email protected]) asking for confirmation of receipt. Nothing back yet so it's wait and see time. I'm reluctant to 'phone them as I would like their confirmation in writing.

[tegwini]

In my small Wiltshire village I know of 2 families on IB - for decades. And, enough money for a detached house, cars, caravan & often away on holiday.  

The details given of a smallish amount weekly forgets the extras-  council tax reduced or not payable, and this can be as much as £200 pm, children with f.o.c. bus passes to school (we paid £5.50 daily aged 15+ 3 years ago), free specs/dentist bills, free prescriptions, full EMA - £30 pw for children 16-18,  mainly free parking, 'carer's allowance, car allowance- almost foc car &  lots of others too.       The IB claimnants with 'stress' ,'back ache' , spots, 'depression' & so on, know how to claim the full range of allowances.   The total amount is now billions - a huge percentage of the UK GNP.

I've even met one in France with 'depression' funded from the UK, but well enough to be involved with a house renovation. Here people are really fed up with all this waste of tax  taken from working mugs like me - now that's depressing!

Tegwini

[Patricia]

How quick some people are to judge others.

My husband is one of the IB beneficiaries suffering stress.  Stress brought about from nursing criminally insane people for 25+ years.  Stress is not just having an off day - a bad mood day - or anything like this.  He has a condition that has given him a complete loss of concentration, insomnia, lack of confidence and various other complaints, some of which are physical.

Yes, we did come to france to live and are renovating our old farmhouse.  The renovations are taking some time because of his concentration, but he is benefitting from the knowledge that we are doing something for ourselves.

We could be in England, costing the country even more money by claiming other benefits, psychiatric treatment, various therapies, etc. but we are not.  I am now an old-age pensioner and have my pension from the UK which entitles me to an E121 on which I could put my husband as a dependant legitimately, but he has his own E121 from the IB.

I would much prefer my husband to have his mental health back but it seems that this will not be the case. 

Those people that judge others without knowing the circumstances of the incapacity/invalidity should think on.  Disability can strike anyone at anytime - next time it may be you that needs to claim.

Regards

Patricia

[woolybananasbrother]

Patricia, nobody has ever said that many people do not deserve the IB and probably more, but it has been devalued by politicians using it to massage the unemployment figures and by the admitted huge numbers of idle scroungers who are taking advantage of it.

In my experience which is limited admittedly, numbers of people who have stress from, say, teaching, are quiter able to run  gite businesses or succesful market stalls. So one asks why they need the IB too.

 

[Patricia]

"In my experience which is limited admittedly, numbers of people who have stress from, say, teaching, are quiter able to run  gite businesses or succesful market stalls. So one asks why they need the IB too."

If as you say there are some running businesses and claiming IB then this is unacceptable.  They are obviously not disclosing their full income.  But then, on the other hand, it could be their partner/spouse who is registered for the business.  This does not exclude them from getting the benefit.  I worked full time up until my retirement, my husband still got the IB but no others benefits - not even presciption charges even though he is on long-term medication.

Unemployment figures have always been massaged by whatever government has been in office with one scheme or another - it is not just the IB claimants that keep the figures down.

There will always be someone out there that wants more - whether they are employed or unemployed.  There has always been a culture of "fiddling", whether it is a company or an individual.  Thankfully, I believe these people to be in the minority.

Regards

Patricia

 

[Russethouse]

They are obviously not disclosing their full income.  But then, on the other hand, it could be their partner/spouse who is registered for the business.  This does not exclude them from getting the benefit. 

Isn't that just the sort of thing that puts peoples backs up though ? They see people who work equally in a business or sometimes the IB recipient is the main person in the enterprise, yet conveniently the business is registered to the other partner - hmmmm

It may be legal and as white as the driven snow, but it isn't  popular [6]

There may always have been a culture of fiddling - but the UK can't afford it anymore, sadly genuine claimants may get damaged in the crossfire.

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="patricia"]

How quick some people are to judge others.

My husband is one of the IB beneficiaries suffering stress.  Stress brought about from nursing criminally insane people for 25+ years.  Stress is not just having an off day - a bad mood day - or anything like this.  He has a condition that has given him a complete loss of concentration, insomnia, lack of confidence and various other complaints, some of which are physical.

Yes, we did come to france to live and are renovating our old farmhouse.  The renovations are taking some time because of his concentration, but he is benefitting from the knowledge that we are doing something for ourselves.

Regards

Patricia

[/quote]

 

You have hit the nail on the head

Your husband is obviously not totally incapable of working if he is renovating a house here in France.

Under the new rules he would if in the UK be given an examination to determine what work he could do. and then allegedly assistance in finding this work.We will wait and see what happens to those people who have chosen to leave the UK just how they will be assesssed and how they will then be assisted in finding work remains to be seen.

[cooperlola]

Assessments will (and already are, in fact) be carried out in France - or the recipient may, if they wish, return to the UK at their own expense to be examined there, BaF.  Anybody losing IB will also, by default, lose their E121s also, and thus their healthcare rights in France.

[Patricia]

If you consider forgetting what it was you were doing, be it hammering in nails, painting a door, etc and wandering off and doing something else not connected with the task (and I do not mean another bit of renovation), or nothing at all, acceptable for the criteria  of being able to do paid work, then I think you would have to think again.  I do not know of jobs that are totally supervised on a one-to-one basis all day everyday.

My husband has been assessed here in France and is considered to be not capable of paid employment.  Being able to manage an hour or so as and when is not the criteria that employers are looking for.

Try living with someone who is diagnosed with stress - or to give it the correct name for my husband's condition Agitated depression. 

You obviously have no-one close to you that is considered to be incapacited - sweeping generalised statements would not be made then.

Comments about scroungers and taxpayers money are of no help to anyone.  We have paid tax throughout our working lives and would not begrudge anyone the benefits that they have a right to.

Regards

Patricia

[Russethouse]

We have paid tax throughout our working lives and would not begrudge anyone the benefits that they have a right to.

I don't think anyone begrudges benefits people genuinely have the right to, but those people would be better served  if those who do not have the right to them were weeded out and repaid the money.

Considering the amount of investment the Government is going to invest(so it says) in giving those on IB every opportunity to work I think for some the going may get very tough if they want to avoid it

 

[5-element]

Given the level of unemployment here in France, and the reluctance of employers to take on, for instance, older (for that, read anyone over 45) employees, or presumably unfit employees, I wonder how the UK authorities would enforce the "seeing them back to work" schemes. It just doesn't seem feasible, for people who live here, unless they are frog-marched back to the UK and supervised into packing tomatoes, writing out labels, or whatever menial jobs that will be lined up for those who are deemed "sometimes fit for work" .

I would be very interested to see how all this can work in practice, except for the cases where the fiddling is totally obvious. For IB beneficiaries whose illness or condition is disabling but intermittent, what could be the possibilities?

[Russethouse]

 I suspect they'll be told that they either take advantage of the scheme or the benefit is stopped. After all who forced anyone to live in France  and not be available ?

(Playing devils advocate here a bit)

[Cat]

I think that that is just the point 5E.  As with unemployment benefits, availability for work would be the key.   Anyone living in France receiving IB but later judged to be fit enough for work might simply lose their benefit, as they could not be classed as available to work, and so could not be "seen back to work".

[cooperlola]

As stated above, and following on from the original post - IB will not even exist in the future.  Whether the new benefits will carry any E121 status at all is, afaik, still the subject of discussion.  Thus it is perfectly possible that early-retired newcomers on the new benefit will not even be able to contemplate a move to France in the future - no E121, no access to the state healthcare system in France (just as for all newcomers now) until UK state retirement age is reached - and certainly no hope of comprehensive private health insurance given that these people are deemed to be ill.

[Boiling a frog]

From DPW

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/welfarereform/noonewrittenoff/

 

 

[cooperlola]

Thanks, BaF.

[Polremy]

Just going back a few posts - it is extremely difficult for a teacher to be pensioned off because of stress!! (actually termed anxiety and then depression)

oh was on sick leave for 18 months and clawed his way back to work.

when the symptoms returned he applied to retire hurt but was told to take sick leave and tablets again.

he made the right decision and just left teaching completely.

no teachers pension on health grounds, no IB, no money.

he even had to pay his own national insurance to secure his old age pension when he gets to the right age. (another 4 years)

I know that in the past teachers managed to get out of teaching at 50 on sick grounds, with enhanced pensions and some of them even went back to teach (my back is feeling better!!) while continuing to draw their pensions.

Those days are over now!! And a jolly good thing too.

Unfortunately the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction leaving burnt out and depressed teachers struggling to continue doing what can be an almost impossible job until they are 60.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Polremy"]Unfortunately the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction leaving burnt out and depressed teachers struggling to continue doing what can be an almost impossible job until they are 60.[/quote]Quite.  Frankly, I personally find this whole thread very depressing.  No longer do we feel compassion for the sick, we just wonder whether they are taking money from our pockets these days.  I have no argument with the idea that cheats should be weeded out but there does seem to be a broad underlying assumption in many of the posts here that "stress" is just a made up illness designed to get people cash for doing nothing all day.  I'm sure we all know cheats of many sorts - working on the black, claiming benefits and working at the same time, the list is endless - but if they really are cheats, the law should deal with them.  But tarring everybody with this brush is just ludicrous, and BaF's statistics much earlier in the thread do seem to belie much of the drivel which is being thrown at us by the media, don't they?  Some of the numbers of so-called cheats just do not appear to stand up to scrutiny.

New Labour's reforms seem to me to be one thing and one thing only - a sorry attempt to attract votes from the average Daily Mail reader (some hope!) who believes that they are working hard just to support a load of layabouts who could work perfectly well if they wanted to. 

I'm just glad I was never unfortunate enough to have been long-term ill or disabled during my working years.  I would not have enjoyed having to cope not only with the condition, but the vitriole which is being thrown at people who have done nothing more evil than to be unwell.  It is a sad reflection on society and our attitude to our fellow man, imo.

[AnOther]

Me too Coops but perhaps for different reasons.

Can it be just me or is anybody else instantly hit with deep cynicism when they read stuff such as BAF's link ?

Often full of fine noble words and promises for sure but can you believe a word of it.

Has this past decade or so of what must rank as the most disengenuos, deceitful and sordid government ever to hold power in the UK really brought us to this mindset.

............or is it really just me [:(]

[powerdesal]

Not just deep cynicism about the state's motives Ernie but despair also at the 'apparent' self centred and uncaring attitudes of the British public in general. Of course I get 99% of my information about UK by reading the various newspapers on line, perhaps the portrayal by the print media is not strictly correct.

The 'whats in it for me' attitude seems to be much more prevalent than I remember. Maybe I've been away too long and am looking back with 'rose tinted glasses'. If so I can imagine that I will be in for a shock when I do get back.

[AnOther]

Just been looking up DLA and in no way wishing to knock or critcise anybody in receipt of it, I have to say that if I or OH were needy enough to qualify for it, even at the lower levels, I'm not sure how keen we'd be on upping sticks to a foreign country.

 

[AnOther]

A great deal of that comes from the examples set by our masters Steve.

I think you should brace yourself.

 

[woolybananasbrother]

Well it might not be a bad idea if you could shove £150000 in the bank on the way over by flogging your British house and then do up an old house which had cost you £50000 whilst living in a caravan for a year or so.  IB plus £7500 and you can just about live. Then maybe a little gite or two, or a B n B undeclared.

[5-element]

[quote user="cooperlola"].

I'm just glad I was never unfortunate enough to have been long-term ill or disabled during my working years.  I would not have enjoyed having to cope not only with the condition, but the vitriole which is being thrown at people who have done nothing more evil than to be unwell.  It is a sad reflection on society and our attitude to our fellow man, imo.

[/quote]

Indeed, Coops. I am so glad you posted that, since you are so highly respected here, with all the incredible amount of work you have done for with FrenchHealthIssues.

I so wish the vitriol was directed at those people on top of the pile, the few who make the real millions, the obscene parasites who exploit the rest the planet and its people - while we, pathetically,  end up quibbling amongst ourselves about what is, effectively, peanuts.

Then with all that vitriol, some real changes could be made in the way the world operates. But it ain't gonna happen, is it?

This being said, of course there should be a clampdown on the zero point something percent people who are fraudulently in receipt of incapacity benefit... and then we can just let the 99 point something percent bona fide ones, live in peace, with whatever quality of life they can still manage for themselves given their disabilities.

[woolybananasbrother]

This is a bit unfair. 'Vitriol' as you call it has been directed only at those who take unfair advantage of the taxpayer to skive and live off other people's efforts. All the posts here make it quite clear that there is great sympathy and support for those who are in genunie need. Those who are stealing from the taxpayer are depriving the needy of perhaps having a better level of benefit.

Anecdotally there are a fair few (BUT not all) who have come to France on IB and yet who seem to be able to run run little businesses whilst drawing the benefit. So why do they need the benefit? Simple. Or whose back bad still enables them to do quite a bit of heavy labouring on their gardens or doing odd jobs for friends.

As to the rich people you castigate, of course there are rogues, but look at Bill gates, he has changed the world for the better and also manages to contribute huge sums to good works every year.