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The cost of living in france before we take the plunge


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Hi, we want to relocate to France are under retirement age, non workers and plan to live off capital/pension funds, Can someone answer a couple of questions please? Do we have to pay into the French health system, our income will be under 10k betwen us?

Can we still go back to the UK for free health care using the EHIC?

Thanking you in advance

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Quite a bit on the web about health cover in France like this for example: http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-health/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=18851 Others who know more will no doubt respond but income wise maybe a little difficult as you may have to buy health insurance if resident. Try putting EHIC in the search box on this site and also see the Health Forum and subForum. Good luck.............JR
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Impossible to give you an answer euroman without more details.  How old are you both, will you have E forms (E106 etc) when you arrive?

And no, you shouldn't be going back to the UK with an EHIC card for medical treatment, part of the deal for living in France is that if you're inacif, which you're suggesting that you are, you need to be able to fund your life here with private medical care.  Whilst the UK may still be your competant state, you will be living in France and will have given up your status with the NHS and the EHIC is NOT designed for ongoing health care needs.

And to be perfectly honest, if medical insurance is eating between €1500 and â‚¬2000 from your budget, you'll be struggling to make ends meet on 10k.

The very best web site for the medical information that you need is http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/insurance/menu.htm which was put together by several people here a couple of years ago when the rules changed.

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Before you get to that you need to look at Tax Habitation, Tax Froncier (sorry if I spelt it wrong), electricity, gas, water, telephone (Internet if you want it), running a car (required if rural - public transport out of towns is bad) and then theres shopping for food etc. So all that lot coupled with the health insurance leaves it pretty tight if not out of the question. Most people coming to France do so for a change of lifestyle, well theres no difference in being stuck in a house in the UK and stuck in a house in France because you can't afford to go anywhere. My guess also is that the OP must be around 55 years old because they talk about private pension. The only other alternative is to work in France which gets you in to the health system and gives you some 'pocket money'.
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I agree with Tony and Quillan, even living the most frugal of lifestyles you will find it extremely difficult to live on 10k be that Sterling or Euros.

Mortgages and any other debt's excepted, and ignoring the potential cost of private insurance, as a crude comparison you can reckon that the cost of living in France is equal to that in UK, but in any case you would need a medical top up, or Mutuelle, which, if you are in your late fifties or approaching retirement ages, could itself account for 10% of your 10k.

Bear in mind also that if you do need private insurance it may be impossible to secure if you have any pre-existing conditions.

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But as we have seen in so many cases, capital decreases far faster than most people expect, and any interest from that capital at present is somewhat minimal.

A lot depends on the sort of life these people expect to live. My answer would be that if you could live reasonably well on that income in UK you would probably be able to do so in France.

Having said that it's all very well saying that you would be in the country and able to grow a lot of your own food which would save money. Maybe, but being in the country in France means that you have the expense of your own transport - you can't just hop on a bus as you would in England. Even taxis are pretty much non-existent in La France profonde.

But it's only you who can decide, after all.

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euroman, three years ago the French government changed the rules precluding early retiree Brits moving to to France from affiliating to the French health system. This was done intentionally, as it was felt that too many low income Brit early retirees were moving to France and were becoming a drain on the French health system, to which they would not have financially contributed during their working lives.

The problem goes away when you reach State retirement age, as under the E121 system, the British government will recompense the French for a Brit retirees health care.

Therefore, to become legally resident in France you will need to obtain fully comprehensive private medical insurance, which can be near impossible to obtain if you have a chronic ongoing health condition. Even if you are both healthy, expect premiums to cost around a couple of thousand euros a year at least.

If you cannot afford or obtain health insurance, do not even contemplate moving to France until you reach full retirement age, as if you required health care for a serious medical condition, the costs could be ruinious.

In connection with your budget, you must take into account the ongoing exchange rate risk, as many retired Brits who have previously moved to France have found out, with a thirty per cent fall in their euro purchasing power over the last two years, leaving them in some cases in very difficult financial circumstances.

In my personal opinion a joint income of under 10k a year is nowhere near sufficient, the purchase power of which will quickly erode with inflation.
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Yes, you will need a car if you live outside town and that means you will have to buy a car here - second hand cars not cheap, or bring a car over from the UK. That in turn means immatriculating your car - again not cheap, depending on model. You will also have to change your headlights, which can be horrendously expensive, as I have just discovered . Don't ask how much, please!

Patrick

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[quote user="AnOther"]

, as a crude comparison you can reckon that the cost of living in France is equal to that in UK, .

[/quote]

 

Sorry Ernie but I have to disagree.  I think the cost of living UK-France used to be about the same - but that was when 1 pound = 1,5€ today with and exchange rate of say 1,15 I think France is much more expensive than the UK - as in about 30% more expensive.  Plenty of individual exceptions of course, but taken as a whole I think you will find it hard to find a long list of things that are cheaper in France than the UK.

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Hi,

Yes, we will have about 10k coming in from interest and private pension and an amount under the bed to dip into for a top-up. So it looks like we either wait another 10 years for retirement or pay into the French system, some of the replies quote 2k would that be each or for both of us? One other thing do you know what the social charges are please do you still pay these when retired?

Regards

Steve
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[quote user="andyh4"][quote user="AnOther"]

, as a crude comparison you can reckon that the cost of living in France is equal to that in UK, .

[/quote]

 

Sorry Ernie but I have to disagree.  I think the cost of living UK-France used to be about the same - but that was when 1 pound = 1,5€ today with and exchange rate of say 1,15 I think France is much more expensive than the UK - as in about 30% more expensive.  Plenty of individual exceptions of course, but taken as a whole I think you will find it hard to find a long list of things that are cheaper in France than the UK.

[/quote]

I am glad you mentioned this because last time I said the same I got jumped on. Thats exactly what I think as well even though I have no income from the UK. When I compare like for like on an average weekly shop with what I pay here and the prices on Tesco and Sainsburys websites France is a lot more expensive. No problem when you calculated on a good exchange rate I guess but now I would say our average weekly shop is just over 20% more than we paid 18 months ago. Another thing I notice is the variance in prices, for example tomatoes in ED's 99c per kilo, in Carrefour their 3.29 per kilo, thats a hell of a difference and I suspect they come from the same place. I also noticed that the same supermarket prices differ depending where you are. The other thing I hate is having to check the date on everything I buy, some stuff I have discovered has been nearly 2 months out of date, tell the assistant and they just give the gaelic shoulder shrug. I guess you get use to it but you shouldn't really have to do it, we never did in the UK.

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Interesting.

I would have said that the cost of living in France was anything up to 30% cheaper than UK until the collapse of the £ which has effectively brought it up to roughly on a par. It is certainly not my impression that France always was much the same as UK but has gone up by 30%.

I don't wish to hijack the thread but it would be interesting to see who agrees with which proposition. ?

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[quote user="AnOther"]

Interesting.

I would have said that the cost of living in France was anything up to 30% cheaper than UK until the collapse of the £ which has effectively brought it up to roughly on a par. It is certainly not my impression that France always was much the same as UK but has gone up by 30%.

I don't wish to hijack the thread but it would be interesting to see who agrees with which proposition. ?

[/quote]

I would tend to agree with that. I am on a low income here, and have a good standard of living. If I were to return to the UK on the same income, I could not afford to live.

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Rather than debate it simply create a Tesco account for instance (use an old UK postcode) then start comparing. I mean Toms in Tesco are 99p a kilo on their website which is the same as the cheapest place I can go to but if I went to one of the other supermarkets they would be around 2 to 3 Euro's.Look at the price of veg and meats, toilet roll's dog and cat food if you have them, kitchen rolls, washing powder etc. Sure we can buy Pork at 2.30 Euros a kilo but only twice a year and then only for a couple of days so if you don't have a massive freezer to store say 100 pork chops your stuck back with 9 Euros a kilo. As for steak well its definatly over priced and absolute rubbish to boot. To be honest I don't think the quality of product is as good as the UK either, just look at the fruit and veg in Archan, LeClerc, Intermarche etc, I wouldn't give it an animal. Sure I can visit the market once a week and pay a real fortune for 'quality' food but if I don't have time etc I am stuffed.
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These debates always intrigue me.

It all depends on  how you want to live, and what you include in the 'cost of living'.

My OH requires enough dosh to go for a beer in the bar when he wants

one, others would say this is an extravagance but think nothing of

updating their computer, phone or TV on a regular basis, not just when

they break down. OH has a battered old phone, it makes & receives calls just fine.

Looking at the price of fresh tomatoes, now, when they are out of season? I don't. I suffer enough from tomato-glut later on in the year!

Cheap supermarket pork chops? yuk, give me free-range any day, I buy

from the farm and make my own paté, sausages etc. No, it's not as cheap

as the special offers but the difference in taste and quality makes it

worthwhile IMO, not to mention animal welfare matters in farming & transport..

Cost of living : do you regard a replacement car, boiler, kettle or washing machine as a daily living

expense or something to come out of the savings in the box under the

bed?

If the OP hasn't already got a liveable home set up in France, there will be all the inevitable costs associated with any move (lights, decs, umpteen bits and pieces) and if these are to come out of the first year's £10K he's going to be very hungry and cold before the year is out!

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if you were living in the uk on £10,000 a year you would receive top up benefits, help with community tax and free healthcare. I don't see how a couple could possibly live on that little in France. You will need at least the same amount of disposable income in France as you would in the UK. I am presuming that the OP does not already own property in France as they would know the cost of living.
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At the risk of making Norman more irritated than normal.

Spanish peppers between €5,50 and €5,95 here but Lidl in Malaga €2,60.

Because the French tomato season has started all the cheap Spanish ones have disappeared and they're charging in the region of €3,50/€3,95 locally. It's protectionism of the French growers.

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euroman/Steve, further to your subsequent response, you cannot contribute to the French health care system as an early retiree, you will have to take out private health insurance, that will be dependent on you both having and maintaining good health. Also as you get older the premiums increase substantively.

I have to say that on your low income, it just would not be sensible to give up free health care on the NHS, to rely on private health insurance in France and the significant costs involved.

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If you could keep some sort of accomodation in the UK, then you could spend quite a lot of time in France without becoming resident and thereby not needing health cover as you would still be covered by the NHS (and by an EHIC whilst in France).

Once you are pension age you could move permanently.
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When comparing the cost of living France/England it's important to remember housing costs. I was looking at a fabulous modern house near here - 4 beds and everything else, €115,000. Unlikely to find that in the UK so people's housing costs tend to be much higher there. Some of the posters above have quoted the high price of food items. I would say that is one of the smaller items of our expenditure. What really hurts are vehicle running costs; fuel, both domestic and vehicle; telecommunications - landline, mobiles, internet; insurances inc. mutuelle; and anytime you have to engage an artisan.

Patrick

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[quote user="bixy"]When comparing the cost of living France/England it's important to remember housing costs. I was looking at a fabulous modern house near here - 4 beds and everything else, €115,000. Unlikely to find that in the UK [/quote] Once again I can only reiterate what I have said many times before ... it all depends on where you choose to live. Where I live a garage - normal size - costs from €27K. Houses start from approx €190K for a dwelling that is totally uninhabitable so therefore requires total rebuilding and regeneration. As I wear sunglasses and not pink-tinted specs I am confident in what I say for our local area as, until now, we have not found a house we like that we can actually afford ... but we love it here, and have lots of friends, so we intend to stay here regardless ... we will continue to rent until we find our 'coup de coeur'.

Sue

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