Dog Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5576295.eceHeres where all the money from stealth fines is ending up.It is incredible that the ACPO is a Ltd company.First they won't tell us which fraternities they belong to and now most are feeding at the trough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Nossssssssssssssssiz in the trough guys. Can noone stop this theft of taxpayers money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Of course old Brunstrom has had his feet in the trough..............Tw*t.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 [quote user="Bugbear"]Of course old Brunstrom has had his feet in the trough..............Tw*t..[/quote] Brainstorm is always there first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventodue Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 And even when they're 'caught out', they're so stupid ..."The Association of Chief Police Officers denied trying to block the release of information to The Times. A spokesman said: “Generally speaking openness is encouraged as much as possible.” "Generally speaking ..."?!? And there was I thinking these people were public servants.Nah, don't even go there ...Hey hoCraig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 [quote user="ventodue"]And even when they're 'caught out', they're so stupid ..."The Association of Chief Police Officers denied trying to block the release of information to The Times. A spokesman said: “Generally speaking openness is encouraged as much as possible.” "Generally speaking ..."?!? And there was I thinking these people were public servants.Nah, don't even go there ...Hey hoCraig[/quote] “Generally speaking openness is encouraged as much as possible.” I was going to use this as the headline it's cringe worthy. Goebbels couldn't do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pouyade Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 The bonus scheme was imposed upon the Police service most senior ranks by politicians whom the cynical might think hoped thereby to influence police activities more closely than many would be comfortable with. The amounts are set in regulations and are paid according to performance against published performance targets, set at the beginning of each policing year. The actual decisions as to achievement and amounts awarded are made by Police Authorities, who are themselves a mix of politicos, ‘independents’ selected by the Authority and magistrates; together acting rather like non- exec directors on pay and conditions issues. The pay scales etc etc are again centrally set by Government machinery and rather lower than equivalent central Civil Service pay and conditions, surprisingly!! ACPO is required to be a limited company because of legislation regarding its handling of moneys. These come not from fines or any other such statutory judicial source – those go effectively into government - but through the individual subscriptions of members. It is the most senior officers’ professional body where research, forward thinking and interface with other such are managed. I can’t remember the amount per year but last time I looked several hundred pounds per year per member. It is NOT their staff association body which negotiates pay etc with the Government – CPOSA which is again funded by individual subscriptions. Safe to say the published maximum percentages payable by rank and the pay scales (which are permanently in the public domain) allow anyone to work out the maximum taxable bonus payable. The rules surrounding decisions as to exactly how much is actually paid include the rubric from Government that it would be extremely rare for anyone to get the maximum and most will get near the bottom of the band. That has certainly been my experience, with only perhaps 10% getting anything in the schemes first year, and a few more thereafter. The amount that Officer A gets as opposed to Officer B is confidential, even amongst themselves; the pay scales are however publicly set. That is a pretty normal circumstance in the public sector. Of course in the private sector both are often kept private. To suggest that there is any theft or unlawful payemnet occurring here would be incredible, inaccurate and IMHO actionable. Best wishes Pouyade Ps Yes, a retired senior cop, who received a small bonus last year and the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Several long-serving chiefs refuse to accept the money, including Sir PaulScott-Lee, the West Midlands police chief, Paul West, the Chief Constable ofWest Mercia and Tim Brain, who leads the Gloucestershire force.Paul Kernaghan, who retired as Chief Constable of Hampshire four months ago,said he refused payments as a matter of conscience.“I found it deeply insulting that anyone would think I would work one iotaharder simply to get a bonus of a few thousand pounds,” he said. A refreshing outlook in todays society.Over £14k to Brunstrom with his record, sort of sticks in the throat a bit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pouyade Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Well, in some sort of fairness, it would be awardable only on the back of the force’s overall performance on burglary, robbery etc etc as set by the Authority and Home Office. Whatever anyone thinks of his personality!!! There are some strong views on that within the Service too you know!Pouyade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventodue Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote user="pouyade"] The bonus scheme was imposed upon the Police service most senior ranks by politicians whom the cynical might think hoped thereby to influence police activities more closely than many would be comfortable with.<snip> Pouyade [/quote]Obviously I can only speak for myself here, Pouyade, but what I still have trouble getting to grips with is the notion that senior public servants should receive any bonus payments at all.At one level, this is a matter of political philosophy which others may naturally disagree with. But at a practical level, my reason is as you indicate in your statement above - it can be used as incentivisation to pursue centrally set targets, potentially at the cost of other equally or more valid activities.Apparently, a number of senior police officers were of the same opinion. Good!Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pouyade Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I don't kmow of any senior officer who supported the introduction of the scheme. Most, like myself, did/do take the bonus money as it was part of an earlier pay settlement where the basic pay had been adjusted accordingly (ie down in real terms!). I can never ever recall a converstaion where anyone commented on adjusting our stance or approach because of the bonus being more or less likely to be awarded. Indeed in my line of specialism (CT), my success or otherwise had no real impact on the targets of burglary, road deaths etc etc except perhaps to make reaching them less likely if officers were diverted fom 'normal' duties to help with preventative security or the aftermath of an incident. It is a farce but rest assurred it cut the pay bill a little (unless you include the administration and morale costs). I know of one Authority which is seeking a buy out of the scheme but the HO is still keen. There are schemes (with bigger incentives) for civil servants both local and central. All such are hang overs of the misguided notion that what happens in the private sector works and is automatically better than in the public sector; and that it should be imposed on the public sector. Having had senior experience of both, I disagree!!Pouyade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventodue Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 [quote user="pouyade"]All such are hang overs of the misguided notion that what happens in the private sector works and is automatically better than in the public sector; and that it should be imposed on the public sector. Having had senior experience of both, I disagree!!Pouyade[/quote]Yup, you're preaching to the choir there! [:)]CheersCraig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 [quote user="ventodue"][quote user="pouyade"]All such are hang overs of the misguided notion that what happens in the private sector works and is automatically better than in the public sector; and that it should be imposed on the public sector. Having had senior experience of both, I disagree!!Pouyade[/quote]Yup, you're preaching to the choir there! [:)]CheersCraig[/quote]Having been on various Renumeration Panels for the Public Sector in my experience the Public Sector wanted what the Private Sector had. They wanted the rewards of sucess without producing anything and without any risk or responsibility.Having said that the way Big Business behaves is not a good example of behaviour.Big Business has been taken over by people with low moral standards and without regard for the shareholders.I would end Limited Companies directors should be held 100% resposible for their companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Updates on this tale of police and the trough.http://www.yrtk.org/2009/article-police-bonuses/ Nice little earner on the gravy boat here:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5548692.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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