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Returning to the UK


David
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We have been tax resident in France since 2004, but due to ill health we think we must return to the uk, and register for uk tax.

We are thinking of doing this on the 1st January 2018 as we have already paid the 2017 French tax.  We were in the UK from Jan to March due to hospital treatment, and my health has not improved.  Are there any problems with this date, or would this mean that we would have to pay uk tax for the whole 2017/2018 uk tax year rather than just for the Jan to 5th April period?

Any practical advice as to how to change back to UK tax would be gratefully received.

Thanks in advance,

David

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You might want to change the date you say you are officially returning on the post as you say 2018 not 2019.[:)]

Residence and tax is very very complicated.

This is how I see it, and I could be wrong about it.  That you would only have to declare three months in the UK, Jan to March and with the tax free allowance, I daresay for most of us there would be no tax to pay on that.

Also if you do that I would not declare those three months to les impots.

That is how I think it should work, but the world works in very odd ways and the 'my' way of thinking is not always what you want.

We moved back in February, but we were not returning to France to live, so simply declared the last two months of the year in the UK tax year.  Your case is different.

Also, remember that if you were not UK residents, then maybe you needed to use your EHIC/CEAM card, for your treatment.

I think I would call HMRC first rather than Les Impots and ask to speak to a technician who deals with residence.

Just wondering why the UK for health care?? We have found where we live perfectly fine since we moved back, ups and downs, but easily comparible to what we had in France, which also had it's ups and downs too.

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As Idun says you won't be taxed twice - whenever you declare the change if fiscal residence. There will be an optimum time to make the move and that will be the one that gives you the maximum income in the UK up to the personal allowance. On that basis and knowing nothing of your financial situation, 1.1.18* would not be a bad date giving 4 months UK income and quite possibly no UK tax to pay.

You may need to prove a change of fiscal residence to the French authorities, so keep records and receipts for travel to and from the UK.

* Note as I understand it you will be declaring the move retrospectively hence 2018 and not 2019. This may just raise rabbits with the French tax people who would expect to have been notified by now and hence my advice to keep proof of travel.
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Not it isn't an old wives tale. We moved in February and 'normal' french tax was not taken for those three months.

I reckon for most, leaving up to April would exempt a person from french tax for that year.

As it is we ended up paying more french tax, but that, dear wooly is quite another thing and would not apply to just about anyone else on here.[:-))]
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I haven't heard that one Wooly.
We were in France until end Feb this year. While there we were tax liable for both France and UK. UK rental.

I sent our french forms off in April and haven't had   a reply yet. We'll probably have to send a return for Jan-March this year. Fair enough.
Filled the uk form online in Jan. this year. No reply yet.

I'm more worried about explaining our major change of financial circumstances to the HMRC. But not to worry until next Jan.
To the OP - sorry, not much help for you.
ps idun just seen your post - maybe the french will leave us alone now - I hope!

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Patf, I know the latest date for UK self assessment is January, and I admit I left it until then our first year, but ended up in a panic. Needed a number and password, although you may already have them. Truth was that when I needed to speak to a technician, they were so busy, that it took an age to speak to someone.

These days I have done the self assessment as early as

May and never later than October. Easier if I need any help.
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Thank you everybody for all your replies which are very reassuring.

I started trying to get treatment in UK in early October 2017 thinking it would be easy.  However, with NHS waiting lists for MRI, heart scans, consultants, etc, time went by.

I think that I must now opt to go onto UK tax from the 1st Jan 2018 which would not be too painful as we were considering going onto the UK tax anyway because of my health, and selling our house in France.

Your advices seem to suggest that going onto UK tax from the 1st Jan 2018 might be the best solution.

I am now back in France without yet having had surgery, and my GP says that I cannot get treatment in Perpignan as I am too large for the MRI scanners.  I could go to Toulouse though, but having surgery there would be difficult.  I must say that we are disappointed with the medical facilities in this area of France.

Thanks very much for all your help.  Now I have to try to find out how to change to UK tax, and whether I would qualify for self assessment or not.

David

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Have to say if your so large that you can't fit into a standard MRI scanner that's hardly the French health care systems fault. Perhaps your wait in the UK was also due down to your size.

Both my parents lived (one still does) in the same area of France as you and has excellent service. Never more than 5 working days for a non urgent scan and my mother had a lot of them before she died.

Toulouse, if you have a heart problem, is the best hospital to go to. They invented stenting along with the medical university in Montpelier. People travel from all over France to be treated there for heart conditions.

Germany, France and Sweden are the best countries for healthcare whilst the UK is well down the list.
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Thank you for your reply Cathar Tours.  My comments about the French health system were because some people asked why I was going to UK.  I agree with you about my weight, and I took that into consideration.  Why I am not impressed with medical facilities in Leucate is that there are no doctors with wheelchair access or parking, so I go to Fitou where the GP is open for three half days a week (12 hours per week).  The nearest hospitals are Narbonne or Perpignan which take 35 to 45 minutes fast drive in winter, and well over one hour in summer.  In summer the medical facilities here are somewhat overwhelmed by tourists.  There are no dentists with wheelchair access.  I have waited for one month for non urgent x-rays here during summer.  We used to live in Deux Sevres where the medical facilities were excellent.
The delays in UK were because I recently spent two months in a French hospital with sepsis, most of the time in intensive care.  Most of my internal organs stopped at one time or another, including my kidney and my heart.  The UK hospital therefore wanted various tests before operating, none of which were because of my weight.  Because of the NHS delays these tests took months.  When I was eventually passed as fit to operate it took another six weeks to be put on the operating list due to a hold up in the internal system.  The hospital staff seemed proud of their waiting lists.  I put on the weight due to fluid retention after the sepsis as my health never recovered properly after the sepsis, and my kidney is still not functioning properly..

However, this is not relevant to the post which is about tax returning to the UK.

David

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David wrote : However, this is not relevant to the post which is about tax returning to the UK.

To be honest if your health is the primary concern, and also the main reason that you are thinking of selling up here and returning to the UK, I would just go asap and not worry myself about waiting for the optimum date tax-wise.

But as I am not privy to the details of your tax situation this can only be my very personal opinion.

You sound as though you have had a rough time health-wise recently so I hope that matters improve henceforth.
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Quite frankly I would go to Toulouse. My mother didn't drive (Dementia) and when my father was there she stayed in a hotel close by that gave special rates for people in these circumstances and she could get her meals in the hospital.

My father had a knee replaced at the clinic in Bezier. From diagnosis to operation took three weeks. A week in the hospital and then to Limoux for three weeks recovery including physio every day.

Also I don't know if you read but apparently you stand more chance of catching sepsis in a UK hospital than anywhere else and it's on the rise although there does seem to be a lot of it around in general. 25,000 children alone caught sepsis in the UK last year out of 260,000 in total. You can get it anywhere but there are more cases reported in UK hospitals than anywhere else in Europe at the moment and of course the current weather does not help.
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OK.. sounds like your medical issues have been a nightmare and I wish you sincere good luck for speedy treatment and recovery, wherever you choose to undergo treatment. So lucky to have options and be able to avail yourself of medical facilities in two countries. As others have said, your health concerns seem to outweigh any minor (by comparison) issues about where to pay tax.

Such a pity to turn a thread about your very real concerns into a point scoring/scaremongering exercise about French vs British hospitals. We aren't dying in the streets quite yet, and it does appear that UK citizens will soon be paying as much for their healthcare as the French......
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Listen y'all, I am still waiting for the results of a CT scan in France in 2006 and I couldn't get it, neither could my GP.

The more french friends talk to me, the more I know that the systems are comparible for LOTS of things.

Where I used to live, one waits for all sorts of stuff that one never waited for before.

ALSO if anyone wants to go by what the papers/news media say, then it is easy enough to hear of problems in France in  the french media.

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True, Idun. My neighbour here is waiting for a specialist appointment and has a date for Jan. Another friend here recently returned to UK for private treatment for an eye problem rather than wait till her November appointment in France.

Turns out Sepsis is on the rise worldwide due to the general ageing of the population. Incidence is one issue, mortality due to sepsis another. It hasn't bypassed France by a long chalk.
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Comparison between the two healthcare systems by anecdotal evidence is totally crazy.

The two systems are funded totally differently.

In the UK we have the public system which is in meltdown and the private system which means that instant access is possible.

In France I'm not an expert, but it appears to be a hybrid where more money is pumped in by the state which also financially supports the private system to an extent.

As David intimates, cover across France appear to vary. .Across UK it varies as well, but probably due to geoPolitical reasons.

In the UK the private sector is very efficient if you have

1. lots of insurance with no previous illness exceptions.

2. a simple problem for surgery with no need for NHS facilities i.e. ICUs.

3 lots of money if unable to get private insurance cover.

In my humble opinion the UK system is good for urgent situations (at least when I worked for the NHS) but was not so good for chronic conditions (your insurance will not be renewed so will have to go NHS). Probably worse now!

Must say, though, that ALBF (the Groot character who knows all) actually makes a good point on this thread.

David, sorry to rattle on about health care provision, but I really do get annoyed when anecdotes are used without any reference to the main overall factors affecting the system..
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