Why I want Labour to win the next UK Election

[Quillan]

I just caught 'Flash' Gordon and his speech on the TV blaming the Tories yet again for not doing anything to help the country out of its current economic crisis, since when did the opposition run the country? Talk about trying to blame everyone else and not accept responsibility for your own cock-up. I saw that other chap, Lord Mandelson yesterday plus Darling, what a load of old tosh yet again. Then thinking about it I thought they should be allowed to win the next election and then made to put it all right. Why should they be allowed to walk away after all the damage they have done.

[Dog]

I would let them put the country right if they agreed not to take a salary or expenses until the economy is back on its feet and all the politicians found taking excess expenses are behind bars.

Tony Blair should have his diplomatic status ended and start paying tax. He should also be forced to forgo his pension and other perks until the country has paid for the damage he caused.

Mandelson should explain what he meant the other day when quizzed about Brown taking various drugs. He said in his mealy mouthed slimey denial "that Gordon took no additional medication..." the BBC were too dim to realise that that meant he was taking some medication which he had denied.

Not one of them could run a corner shop.

 

[just john]

[quote user="Quillan"]  Why should they be allowed to walk away after all the damage they have done.[/quote]

Primarily because they are incapable, and would only assume a mandate to borrow more; they don't really want to win anyway, they going through the moves ready to hand the poison chalice on to whomsoever will be obliged to reveal the true extent of debt and mansion tax hike, didn't you see Gorgon laughing up his sleeve?[:D]

[mint]

[quote user="Dog"]

Not one of them could run a corner shop.

 

[/quote]

Oh, Dog, I wish you wouldn't talk about corner shops because we did have the grocer's daughter and look what that Reign of Terror did to the country!

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

I don't think it makes much difference who's in. Look across the world and you see different parties in power, labour in one, conservatives in another (or equivalents). The world still ended up in financial ruin.

If Yes Minister is to be believed, we don't actually need politicians anyway, it's the civil service that does all the work anyway. And by their own methods too [:)]

[Dog]

[quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="Dog"]

Not one of them could run a corner shop.

 

[/quote]

Oh, Dog, I wish you wouldn't talk about corner shops because we did have the grocer's daughter and look what that Reign of Terror did to the country!

[/quote]

She proved that she could never have done her fathers job. That's the whole point just like with monarchs you cannot just have a job because daddy did it!

[tegwini]

Then thinking about it I thought they should be allowed to win the next

election and then made to put it all right. Why should they be allowed

to walk away after all the damage they have done - Quillan.

Well that's what happened last time!

Tegwini

[tegwini]

the grocer's daughter and look what that Reign of Terror did to the country! - Sweet 17

Merci Dieu for Margaret Thatcher - she sorted out the last mess the Socialists made- toughness was necessary.   How ir can be fixed now is anyone's guess!   Lots more taxes for those of us still in the UK - for those in France lucky you.  More debt here than the annual GDP for a year or more -  £1.5 trillion !!!    So much for Gordon and 'prudence'.

Hard to envisage a Trillion,  and worse that I predicted a couple of years back on this forum.

Tegwini

[tegwini]

This government was I recalled left 30 billion in credit by the last

conserative governement. We also had one of the best pensions system in

Europe. We are now after 12 years bankrupt and facing the prospect of

working until we drop. All down to the "prudent" chancellor. Well done.

If people vote for this bunch then they deserve all they get.  Bob, Basingstoke

(from BBC's Have your say)

And typical of the opinions of  postings on this site - with over a 100 pages, and growing, and the majority anti- Brown. 

Tegwini

[Quillan]

[quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="Dog"]

Not one of them could run a corner shop.

 

[/quote]

Oh, Dog, I wish you wouldn't talk about corner shops because we did have the grocer's daughter and look what that Reign of Terror did to the country!

[/quote]

What reign of terror, what did she do? The UK is like a shop, you can't spend money you don't have on stock, simple economics really.

I still think that GB was sent by the Scots on a mission to reek revenge for England beating them at Rugby (66 times) and the battle of Culloden in 1745[6].

I still say you don't want to win the next election, and probably the one after that or inded the next three. Perhaps we should let the Lib Dems have a go for a change.

[buelligan]

FWIW, I think all politicians are an absolute shower.  They embody all that is negative in humans.  To say I loathe them would be a real understatement.  IMO, anyone who chooses to get involved with them, who gives them even an ounce of credence, is either innocent, asinine or just plain wicked.  Let them all ride their earwigs to hell I say....[:P][:D]

[NormanH]

To quote from another thread:

NormanH wrote:

"Under the impact of what it saw as the Thatcherite economic revival, New Labour since 1997 swallowed the ideology, or rather the theology, of global free-market fundamentalism whole.In their economic policies both Tony Blair and (until October 2008) Gordon Brown could be described without real exaggeration as Thatcher in trousers. Britain deregulated its markets, sold its industries to the highest bidder, stopped making things to export (unlike Germany, France and Switzerland) and put its money on becoming the global centre of financial services and therefore a paradise for zillionaire money-launderers. That is why the impact of the world crisis on the pound and the British economy today is likely to be more catastrophic than on any other major western economy - and full recovery may well be harder." Eric Hobsbawm...and I agree.

As someone else has already said, what we are seeing with the whole

financial crisis are the last vestiges of the Reagan/Thatcher era

The problem with New Labour has been that it has collaborated with, and even developed, Thatcher's cult of greed and self-interest. That Britain is even contemplating bringing back the party of privilege is incomprehensible.

I too would like to see Labour win the next UK election, but not New Labour!

[Quillan]

There are some decent ones out there (although I am struggling to give an example) but in general you are probably right. I don't like Cameron, not quite us much as GB but there you go. I think what gets on everyone's nerves is that they all keep slagging each other off rather than deal with the problems that effect everyone. The Tories seem to be banging on at the same old things (labours errors), sounding like a broken record yet failing to give any alternatives or ideas about how they will tackle things if and when they get back in to power.

I was watching the news yesterday and they were talking about childminding/babysitting. Apparently its now illegal if you are not a registered childminder/babysitter. I think two hours max is allowed if you are paying and then only for so many hours per month. There was also something about reciprocal childminding being payment in kind so the law still applies. This little law sneaked through under the 2007 amendments to the Children act. This came to light because two serving police officers working job share fell foul of this new law. Its a stupid law and will effect many people, especially those on job share schemes. You could go to prison (highly unlikely) then who would pay for the childminding or will they simply take the child in to care. Up till now this law has not been published very much and not many know of its existence. It is thought there are hundreds of thousands of people out there breaking it unknowingly.

New Labour have created in excess of 3000 new laws since they took power over 2600 more than when the Tories were last in power (source - various Internet searches but all within 10% of my figures).

[tegwini]

' the whole

financial crisis are the last vestiges of the Reagan/Thatcher era' - NormanH

Not at all NH-

In fact,  the financial crisis originated with the leftist Clinton Administration's Community Re-investment Act 1995 which forced banks to fund mortgages for the poor and those  who were high credit risks.

 

The FM and FM (Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac) banks had to underwrite  these loans and mortgages.   These banks were the largest US underwriters of mortgages and  were backed by the US (Clinton) administration and their demise pulled other banks down, including  having a serious effect on UK and European banks who had 'invested' in what turned out to be  'toxic' loans.

The UK Royal Bank of Scotland had expanded massively into the US and a huge % of its US business involved those 'toxic' loans.

The banks all assumed that the money was safe - guaranteed by the US government, but the crunch was that the amount became so huge that even the US gov'ment could not guarantee all of it - and clearly not outside of the US.

1992 - (under Regan) US $ 1 Billion loans with FM & FM banks

1999-  (under Clinton) US$ 80 Billion and growing exponentially

Hence the origins of the crisis- NOT Thatcher.

Tegwini

    

[tegwini]

I too would like to see Labour win the next UK election, but not New Labour! NormanH

But Norman, haven't you LEFT the UK ?

Tegwini

[NormanH]

'The banks all assumed that the money was safe'

That is the origin; the attitudes and assumptions which were bred by financial deregulation and the Big Bang.

'If you pay peanuts you get monkeys' was used to justify ridiculous levels of remuneration..

[NormanH]

I am not living in the UK but I can express a view on the election.

On the other hand unlike the right wing Government of Bush I don't support invading a country whose leaders I don't agree with just to bring about 'Regime Change'

[velcorin]

Sex, Politics and Religion NormanN--everyone has an opinion based on prejudice.

Bankrupt Britain? Then explain why Japan has a national debt of 225% of GDP without seeing bailiffs?

Is the Global Recession the fault of Gordon Brown? Why not Sarkozy, after all his insurance companies withdrew trade credit insurance. Or Merkel, they ran a massive trade surplus to fund the Ossies, sucking in money from all over the globe to be wasted being thrown at politicians pet projects to get them re-elected.

No one person/government/country, is to blame, it was a collective failure of the post-war generations in many countries, who had amazing economic growth, life beyond the wildest dreams of their parents' generation. No one seemed to question why they could afford a 2nd home, 2 or 3 cars, champagne and wine, steak.......Now their children and grandchildren will pay the price. That is my opinion, the party is over.

This may sound bizarre to some people on this Forum, as I have just returned from a meeting, attended by all my counterparts in European industry, total turnover between us is about EUR 600billion, employing about 1 million people. At the end of the meeting we went round the table, 2 questions, financially safest country in Europe for our trade, and the most dangerous. Everyone picked the UK as the safest, 75% picked Germany as the most dangerous, 25% picked France. 18 people, 8 different nationalities, at the meeting, me as the only Brit. Possibly we are all stupid, or maybe we know something you don't, take your pick[:D]

[Quillan]

But then and again there are others that may give a different story, I don't actually know myself.

Many Financial 'Experts' have tipped Asia and the US as the place to invest your funds on the basis that they are at the bottom now and the only way out is up. I do of course use the word Experts with my tongue in my cheek as none of them seem to have the ability to sing of the same sheet.

With regards to your meeting, and I am sure you work for a major company, but really is it not also a gamble and does it not also depend on what your business is. Also it does not mean that what they are saying will come to be. I mean, if you had a bookies convention and at the end asked which horse in the next race they think will win and which will loose the majority may pick a certain horse based on form but that does not mean its going to win. Something might happen, the rider may fall off for some strange reason, in fact any number of things could happen. It's all conjecture really.

[velcorin]

Industrial chemicals.

The little pop quiz was meant as a light hearted way of ending the meeting. The result didn't shock me. Year to date, we've have 290 insolvencies, not one single one in the UK, but 90% of them are in Germany and France, all the other companies are seeing the same results. It should be borne in mind that the UK (contray to what you may think) is the 2nd biggest market, and producer, of these products, after Germany, therefore you would expect to see significant numbers of business failures, but it's not happening. German industry is massively overborrowed from the binge they had over the last 10 years, spending on plant and machinery which has now been idle for 12 months, and no sales or revenue to fund those loans. Fairplay to the Brits, thet kept their Capex budgets under control, not so in Germany. Now the chickens are coming home to roost.

As regards Asia, which is shorthand for China and India, it should be considered that these economies are coming from a very, very low level, requiring large injections of capital. The capital comes from the West and Japan, sources which currently are dry due to the total lack of funding available from credit sources. We have just mothballed a EUR1.2billion investment in a plant in China, as we haven't got the money to finish it, never mind the start up costs. Without this funding in the medium term growth will stall, the worrying thing to my mind is that both Chinese and Indian firms seem to be more interested in trophy assets overseas (eg JLR in the UK) than recycling the capital within their own countries. Why? I haven't got an answer.

[Keni]

So how does the 'East' regard the present 'Business Tzar', Mandy? If anyone saw what he said to a paper the other day - about him offering to work for other political parties if they required him to - or in other words if the Cons want me, I'm in!

I have a friend who works for a French company, with an arm in the UK. They, I believe saw growth across both markets last year, and that was in sales/manufacturing. Interestingly the items sold are also covered by the French eco-tax, which I gather will be reduced to 40% next year from 50% this year. They are looking again to a growth next year I suppose on that.

If we had more benefits in this country for eco-projects - solar hot water etc., that would surely create a growth market, mind you the company on the Isle of Wight that manufactured wind turbines was Danish, so the government haven't even supported the eco-parties on that front, unlike the French.

I agree, make them repair the damage and then try for a coalition, that should make sure nothing happens!

[velcorin]

Just been informed Dystar GmbH went bust yesterday. Not a household name, but for students of history, Dystar made synthetic textile dyes, it grew to become IG Farben. After WW2 IG Farben was split into Bayer, BASF and Dystar. Now one of them has gone, 6000 jobs, and a massive Bad Debt for us.

[velcorin]

Getting back on topic [:D]

As a genuine question. Is there a link(s) somewhere what the manifestos of the various parties are on tax and spending? Or is it too early in the UK political cycle to get that information? Is there a link somewhere to voting intention polls? I'm particularly interested in exactly which questions were asked, and to whom.

[Quillan]

Job loss's under New Labour over the last 12 months can be seen HERE listed by day and month. The largest single number by a company was 27,000, the next largest was 15,000 so 8,000 is not so much in one hit although it is horrendous for anyone loosing their job.

 

[Owens88]

Quote - This government was I recalled left 30 billion in credit by the last conserative governement. We also had one of the best pensions system in Europe.

I may be wrong but I thought that one of the first things that New Labour did was to repay a whole load of national debt - so as to avoid paying all the b*** interest. I don't see how that squares away with £30 billion in credit. However I haven't bothered looking it up.