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Question Time 22/10/09


Quillan
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Got to agree with Pickles re discrimination - in London you will see every kind of colour, religion etc etc, and whilst some inevitable discrimination will take place, I think you will find is is quite often against white - ie positive discrimination towards multi-ethnic (whatever that may mean. I was "removed" from the workforce two years ago, on my redundancy, and during my subsequent job hunting (before I called it quits and came out here), there were times that I thought that I as a "mature" white female was being discriminated against in favour of non-white (and though I am also quite sure that there was age discrimination in there too, we aren't allowed to say that now as age discrimination is supposed to be a thing of the past too).  So someone who is not white is likely to fare quite well in the job market in London.

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ENGLAND I think this really sums it all up.

After hearing that many cities did not want to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights, so DIDN'T!


After learning that the British Red Cross shops were instructed not to display Christmas decorations least they cause offence. 


After hearing that the Birmingham council changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's licence with her face covered. You try it!

After hearing of a Primary School in Birmingham where a boy was told that for PE they could wear Football League shirts (Aston Villa, Birmingham, West Brom etc) but NOT an England shirt as it could offend others !


This prompted the editorial below written by a UK citizen.
and published in a British newspaper.


IMMIGRANTS. NOT BRITONS, MUST ADAPT.


Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.

However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the 'politically correct' crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.


I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.


This idea of
England being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Britons, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!



If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.. If St.George's cross offends you, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.


But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage you take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.


We didn't force you to come here. If you don't like it GO HOME!!


You asked to be here.. So accept the country that accepted
YOU. Pretty easy really, when you think about it..
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[quote user="ebaynut"]ENGLAND I think this really sums it all up.

After hearing that many cities did not want to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights, so DIDN'T!


After learning that the British Red Cross shops were instructed not to display Christmas decorations least they cause offence. 


After hearing that the Birmingham council changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's licence with her face covered. You try it!

After hearing of a Primary School in Birmingham where a boy was told that for PE they could wear Football League shirts (Aston Villa, Birmingham, West Brom etc) but NOT an England shirt as it could offend others !


This prompted the editorial below written by a UK citizen.
and published in a British newspaper.


IMMIGRANTS. NOT BRITONS, MUST ADAPT.


Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.

However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the 'politically correct' crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.


I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.


This idea of
England being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Britons, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!



If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.. If St.George's cross offends you, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.


But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage you take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.


We didn't force you to come here. If you don't like it GO HOME!!


You asked to be here.. So accept the country that accepted
YOU. Pretty easy really, when you think about it..
[/quote]

Not very original, it's a rip-off (in places word for word) of an American piece http://www.snopes.com/rumors/thisisamerica.asp 

and then an Australian one http://www.expatsingapore.com/forum/index.php?topic=56706.msg1514005

Also, when did councils start issuing driving licences?

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It is a little difficult to read text that is printed in far too large a font - the comments lose impact ...

[quote user="ebaynut"]After hearing that many cities did not want to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights, so DIDN'T![/quote]

A little checking indicates that the event (s) to which this seems to be referring did not take place in the manner in which the original writer (not ebaynut) interprets them

[quote user="ebaynut"]After learning that the British Red Cross shops were instructed not to display Christmas decorations lest they cause offence.[/quote]

A six-year-old minor storm in a teacup from 2003. Doesn't seem to have affected any Red Cross shops I've seen recently.

[quote user="ebaynut"]After hearing that the Birmingham council changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's licence with her face covered.[/quote]

Urban myth. Birmingham Council has no say in the issuing of driver's licences. Edited: Of course, it was Birmingham, ALABAMA, in the original US version

[quote user="ebaynut"]After hearing of a Primary School in Birmingham where a boy was told that for PE they could wear Football League shirts (Aston Villa, Birmingham, West Brom etc) but NOT an England shirt as it could offend others ![/quote]

Again, after this story was investigated, IIRC it was found to be false: one school in the area had banned ALL replica kit.

[quote user="ebaynut"]This prompted the editorial below written by a UK citizen. and published in a British newspaper.[/quote]

The editorial I presume (believe) was written/plagiarised by a UK citizen who happens to be an everyday, common-or-garden newspaper editor (Sun/Mail?) who has absolutely no primary interest in selling papers, and is just an ordinary person-in-the-street.

Look: the point that I am trying to make is that there are enough stupid things going on in the UK without someone needing to make them up ...
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[quote user="Cat"]

[quote user="ebaynut"][/quote]

Not very original, it's a rip-off (in places word for word) of an American piece http://www.snopes.com/rumors/thisisamerica.asp

Also, when did councils start issuing driving licences?

[/quote]

I never said it was my creation, just something that had been sent to me, and is doing the rounds here in England. So apart from the licence part I guess the rest is OK then?

BTW, Thanks for resizing it. [:)]

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Ebaynut, I hear this type of view from my 89 year old mother, I excuse her due to ignorance of the way life is outside her four walls - whats your excuse ?

Many of those women and men you see wearing dress which is nor the norm here are  British . They were born in the UK, just like me (or you as far as I am aware)

 

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

Ebaynut, I hear this type of view from my 89 year old mother, I excuse her due to ignorance of the way life is outside her four walls - whats your excuse ?

Many of those women and men you see wearing dress which is nor the norm here are  British . They were born in the UK, just like me (or you as far as I am aware)

 

[/quote]

So if you are born in the UK its makes you British??

Does that mean that if a dog is born in a stable its a horse????  [Www]

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What a load of old twaddle the person wrote in that article, they clearly have either not read British history or have rather strange and blinkered view of it.

Great Britain/United Kingdom (or whatever you want to call it) has always been a country of immigrants dating back 45AD, to even claim to be Angle Saxon and therefore British means you are actually from Germany originally (from two of the three tribes that came to GB) in around 400AD.

If you want to know more then read HERE .

I wonder if the person who wrote the article was a member of the far right, BNP for example. Its the sort of rubbish they would come out with.

As for fighting, well the Indians, Pakistanis (Pakistan was formed by partition after WW2) and the majority of other ethnic groups actually fought and died as our allies in WW1 and WW2 (for numbers see HERE ).

 

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

Ebaynut, I hear this type of view from my 89 year old mother, I excuse her due to ignorance of the way life is outside her four walls - whats your excuse ?

Many of those women and men you see wearing dress which is nor the norm here are  British . They were born in the UK, just like me (or you as far as I am aware)

 

[/quote]

 

It's disgusting I will report you - you cannot keep 89 year old women locked up and without radio and TV - why she'd be better off in prison. Just because there are some dangerous people out there doesn't give you an excuse to imprison your mother even if she made you eat brussel sprouts and didn't approve of your boyfriends or was it the other way around.

If  Norm wants to wear a dress why shouldn't he. Who wants to be British doesn't everyone want to be English?

I would like some advice on how I can get my wifelet to wear a hijab - it is my fantasy...

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I agree a lot with Ebaynut, and also for having the courage to voice what many of us feel but who are shouted down for saying it.

My mother was an immigrant from Italy, just before the war. Had to learn English, had to start a business. The men were interned during the war, the women had stones thrown at them in the street and weren't allowed into the air rail shelters, insults, etc. Whilst bitter in her old age about this, she understood that the Italians were, at that time, perceived as the enemy. She learned English and brought us up.

I remember her always saying that it was SHE who had to adapt, there was no special treatment, no counselling. You were the stranger and you obeyed the rules because you had voluntarily come into the country and that was your choice to stay.

Now that's an extreme example and certainly she experienced unacceptable behaviour. But, for me, I believe if you go into another country, another culture, from choice, then you have to accept their way of doing things.

Compulsory crash helmets in the 70s, but not for Sikhs ... that's a start of it. So there is a law, but some people can break it. Either it's a law or it's not and religious choice doesn't give you the freedom to break the law of the land.

Sadly the media highlights white on black crime and calls it racism. Terrible crimes are committed, but black on white crimes are played down. That's not racist. I believe it is but there's people in the media with some kind of agenda to not allow you to speak a truth.

Britan's first black newspaper, the Voice, proudly advertised as such. Good for it, but would you dare print Britain's first white newspaper? Would you be allowed to?

I think a lot of discontent stems from seeing a "one rule for us and another rule for them". And all the time that's perceived to be a truth then groups which represent a silent majority who dare not voice their views will gain votes at the ballot paper.

Whether you deem my views racist or not is not the point. I'm not, I take all as I find. But I do believe that immigrants must adapt and follow the laws of the land to which they choose to come, just as my mother had to. And to her dying day she blessed the opportunities that England had given her.
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Right.  That's it.  I give in. Next time anybody asks for help on finding an English Speaking doctor/notaire/you name it, or wants info' on how to get UK TV,  etc, etc etc, I know what to say.  Tough ****, if you don't speak French or do everything the way the French do, you shouldn't be here.  Put up, or go home.
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[quote user="Quillan"]

What a load of old twaddle the person wrote in that article, they clearly have either not read British history or have rather strange and blinkered view of it.

Great Britain/United Kingdom (or whatever you want to call it) has always been a country of immigrants dating back 45AD, to even claim to be Angle Saxon and therefore British means you are actually from Germany originally (from two of the three tribes that came to GB) in around 400AD.

If you want to know more then read HERE .

I wonder if the person who wrote the article was a member of the far right, BNP for example. Its the sort of rubbish they would come out with.

As for fighting, well the Indians, Pakistanis (Pakistan was formed by partition after WW2) and the majority of other ethnic groups actually fought and died as our allies in WW1 and WW2 (for numbers see HERE ).

 

[/quote]

 

Wikipedia shouldn't be relied on. They seem to have no mention in those figures of  Indians and Africans that fought and died for the Fatherland.

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[quote user="cooperlola"]Right.  That's it.  I give in. Next time anybody asks for help on finding an English Speaking doctor/notaire/you name it, or wants info' on how to get UK TV,  etc, etc etc, I know what to say.  Tough ****, if you don't speak French or do everything the way the French do, you shouldn't be here.  Put up, or go home.[/quote]^

Quite.

In fact, change the words in that piece from England/English to France/French...

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[quote user="cooperlola"]Right.  That's it.  I give in. Next time anybody asks for help on finding an English Speaking doctor/notaire/you name it, or wants info' on how to get UK TV,  etc, etc etc, I know what to say.  Tough ****, if you don't speak French or do everything the way the French do, you shouldn't be here.  Put up, or go home.[/quote]

Me too!!

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Dog, I think its safe to say that in many cases those that have 'earned' their nationality as immigrants are more often to be much prouder of it than those who inherit it as a matter of right.

Re your previous post about wiki, I think you may be right to a degree as they believed they would get independence for their country should Germany win (like a few Irish to name but one nationality as a general example). Lets not forget that some British also fought alongside the Germans in WW2. Not many I agree but it did happen, I seem to remember a documentary some time back on this issue.

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I've read all the above posts....I saw Question Time...and I have family in the UK.

I really must take issue with some of the terribly condescending and patronising comments here.

The British DO feel under threat in the UK.    If any of you read ANY of the UK daily newspapers - including the Daily Mail (and the fact that I include the Daily Mail indicates that I know how many of you feel about that paper - but believe it or not THAT newspaper articulates perfectly what a great number of UK people feel and are worried about).     And when I say UK people - I do include the Asians, the Indians, the Afro-Carribeans - everyone.

Just as much as the indigenous (ie the white Anglo-Saxon who can trace family history back over 500 or 600 years) - the economic immigrants and now British citizens who arrived in the 1950s are JUST as concerned about the NUMBERS of immigrants as the indigenous population

So PLEASE - S T O P  THE   B------Y sneering at the concerns of the ordinary little worker ants who can see their schools being over-crowded, the social housing no longer available to the indigenous population, the pressures on health services, the demands on transport, the destruction of our green fields (which instead of being kept for agricultural purposes - to FEED ourselves) - is being concreted over for housing - for untold number of immigrants.

See today's Daily Mail - it has now been admitted that it was an OFFICIAL and Deliberate policy for the UK to be flooded with immigrants - didn't matter from where, didn't matter their backgrounds - it was a DELIBERATE DESTRUCTION of a tolerant and fair-minded society.

That Straw thingy couldn't answer the question from one of the few White people in the QT audience about how the Labour Party's 'policy' on immigration had driven many people to vote for the BNP.

The Labour Party planned the Deliberate destruction of the cohesion and kindness and tolerance and decency of the Anglo Saxon White British person......

And you LOT dare to sneer at people who are unhappy about the destruction of their society.

Why is it Racist to stand up for your country and history and culture and traditions ? 

The Africans stand up for themselves don't they in their own country - isn't that what they're doing in Zimbabwe ?

The French stand up for themselves - they are now planning a DAY to commemorate being French.

And if the British tried that - we'd be told it was racist.

And as for not believing the stupidity that goes on in the UK, I had personal experience of NOT being able to put up leaflets in my local library (paid for out of my taxes) for a Christmas Carol service at the local Parish Church - on the grounds that 'others might find it offensive' !!!!!!   A Christian carol service at Christmas time - a Christian Festival in a Christian country could not be advertised in the local library......So those stories which some of you consider to be 'urban myths' - I can tell you from first hand experience THEY ARE NOT, NOT, NOT.

The UK people have had enough - they have not been listened to.

So of course they'll turn to other political parties - and who can blame them ?

And I really do worry about the future for my family back in the UK....it is not going to be the bright and happy future I hoped for them - or that I experienced growing up.

They'll cope, they'll adapt...but it will be a nastier society because of the pressures caused by sheer volume of numbers.

And now I'm putting my head below the parapet !!!!   Bon soir XXX

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Chessie I won't speak for myself but perhaps you are not middle class enough.

Most of the middle middle class + and above moved to France to pretend to be French and forget  the reality of the Stalinistic State mixed with United Nations overspill and new age thinking  in UK plus crazy taxes and policing -  plus they prefer using a european language to speak to the neighbours.

The trouble with France is you cannot get a Gujerati curry or a good vegetarian Turkish meal.

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Chessie - hear hear, I applaud what you say!!

I'm pretty fed up on airing my views and then being shouted down as "racist". To my mind, that's an easy insult to hurl just to try and shut someone up and stop the discussion of what I believe is an important issue.

In my lifetime I have seen my home town change, and not for the better. Overcrowding, the biggest mosque in Europe was built there (and flouted many planning laws and labour laws but no-one dared to challenge this as they would be deemed "racist") ... it's not a colour thing but a cultural one - the drowning of a British culture by a foreign one that isn't so tolerant of women's rights and flaunts the law (Sikhs not required to wear crash helmets).

At some point there must be a public debate, where people can be free to discuss issues like this. Question Time gave a minority party that has a considerable amount of supporters the opportunity to speak on this but, no, Nick Griffin was verbally attacked and shouted down. Suppression of free speech - isn't that fascism?
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Maybe you have heard of "Operation Trident", (goggle it if you have never heard of it) it is the unit that tackles gun crime in the capital. Not any gun crime, but gun crime in the black community.

I have a friend who serves in the Metropolitan police, one day I asked him if  there is a unit that tackles white gun crime in the capital, "no need for one " he replied.  

 

I now predict a long list of links to sites showing crime committed by whites in London. [Www]

 
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