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Question Time 22/10/09


Quillan
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[quote user="buelligan"]You may have a good point there EBnut, we should all take a moment to think of the suffering poor Mr Griffin has had to endure for his principles and for our elucidation.  To tell you the truth, I could almost cry.  To think of him bravely bearing the cross of his ideals as he was mocked and scourged by a baying pack of outlanders.  What a wonderful human being......[:D][/quote]

Now if I did not know better......[;-)]

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[quote user="Richard"][quote user="tegwini"]'Thirdly, I thought Straw was allowed too much of the available time. I

was offended by his assertion that no-one is truly English any more. I

am'. Hoddy

Well I missed that bit Hoddy - I must have nodded off.  But I do agree with you.

BUT it does say lots about this odious man (Straw not Griffiths).  Only

in the UK would anyone say this - I don't expect a French politician

would dare to say such.

But, it's typical of the PC state we

live in.   Why not spend hundreds of millions on translation services,

documents and translators for immigrants who sometimes refuse, or can't

be bothered to learn English ?  The French don't do this and expect

immigrants to make an attempt to fit in - quite right too.

I too am English  - even with Welsh & Irish blood.  But what proportion will be 'English' in 2030 ?

Tegwini[/quote]

About 1/3 from what I read on the Beeb web site the other day.[/quote]

And that's the problem! Thankfully I'll be ancient by then - either in my niqab - or veil - hopefully shroud !!!

Gibbons on Oxford and minarets springs to mind - Charles Martel must be spinning in his grave.

Tegwini

ps still can't do quotes! did try.
SOMEHOW I DID IT !!!

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[quote user="tegwini"]'Thirdly, I thought Straw was allowed too much of the available time. I was offended by his assertion that no-one is truly English any more. I am'. Hoddy


Well I missed that bit Hoddy - I must have nodded off.  But I do agree with you.

BUT it does say lots about this odious man (Straw not Griffiths).  Only in the UK would anyone say this - I don't expect a French politician would dare to say such.

But, it's typical of the PC state we live in.   Why not spend hundreds of millions on translation services, documents and translators for immigrants who sometimes refuse, or can't be bothered to learn English ?  The French don't do this and expect immigrants to make an attempt to fit in - quite right too.

I too am English  - even with Welsh & Irish blood.  But what proportion will be 'English' in 2030 ?
Tegwini


[/quote]

 

I normally stay well away from these sort of threads, they tend to wind me up. However, I was curious how the programme had been received, as it was miles too late for us. Then I saw this...............

The "French" absolutely do provide State, Department, Commune information in a multitude of languages, and provide translators.........if you live in a city, where the vast majority of people reside. I suggest your statement shows a lack of knowledge of France, remember there are 5 million muslims in France, and 1.5million in the UK.

And in 2030 my French, "coloured", non-practicing muslim wife, will be living in Britain, as she has absolutely no intention of living 1 second longer than necessary, in the racist, intolerent state is France. So that's one on you non-"English" stats.

Please define "English".  I see it type of statement all the time through the eyes of my wife in France, so please be careful, in your choice of words, as it is a subject I live with daily. To help you, please recall, racism is discrimination on the grounds of colour, creed or religion, you should be able to hit all 3 if you try.

 

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I can trace my mother's family back to 11th century and my fathers to the 15th century.  Both sets of ancestors living in England throughout that time and my father's family living in the same village.  My mother's family can be traced back to the 11th century royals (pre Norman conquest).  All those with my maiden name originate from one small village in Buckinghamshire.    With the exception of one French ancestor (a French Huguenot escaping Richelieu), as far as we are aware, all our family are English.  I think we would meet the definition.

I think there would be a lot more like me.

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[quote user="velcorin"]

The "French" absolutely do provide State, Department, Commune information in a multitude of languages, and provide translators.........if you live in a city, where the vast majority of people reside. I suggest your statement shows a lack of knowledge of France, remember there are 5 million muslims in France, and 1.5million in the UK.

[/quote]

Attending hospital in Carcassonne which I believe is a city, (I don't mean that sarcastically) we were told they do not provide translators and that if I did want one then I would have to source and pay for one myself. They could supply me with a list of phone numbers or the phone book if I wished. I was also told this when I dealt with the Notaire on buying my house even though it is clearly stated its his job to ensure that I fully understand the contents of my contract.

In the UK, my wife worked in one of the largest London hospitals for a while, they provide translators for in excess of 29 different languages and dialects of said languages, free of charge and the cost is taken from the hospitals budget. Many of the signs in the hospital are in multi languages, this is something I personally have not seen in France. Most libraries also provide books in multiple languages, not for those wishing to learn a language but for those who do not read or write in the English language.

In all three counties in which I had houses in the UK the Council Tax forms each year were produced in the five or so of the main languages used in each area with further translations on request, there is no extra charge for this service. There are also well publicised multilingual help lines for various different services ranging from the police, medical and fire services down to council offices all of which are free to the user.

I am guessing that the comment made by Tegwini, although badly written , is that as long as you provide these services free then there is no incentive for immigrants to learn English. Judging by my own experiences here in France I have to agree with him. Actually on reading this through I was interviewed at a local police station by a gendarme who had a police diploma in English. Her English was as bad as my French. In fact if anything my bad French was better than her bad English and we worked our way through in a mixture of both. She was very proud to sign the bottom of the statement and to write that she had her diploma and that I fully understood what she had said in English.

I too can talk about racism in France because I have a daughter of mixed race and I agree it's not very pleasant and there is quite a lot of it in France although in general, you are right, the English speaking people don't normally see it at first hand.

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"I am guessing that the comment made by Tegwini, although badly written"  Quillan

Hey !!!  we've been down this road before!  

Clearly giving you advice on your and you're and etc   and use of the apostrophe was not welcome. 

I may be slack at times, but "badly written" ?  

Tegwini

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[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="velcorin"]

[/quote]

In the UK, my wife worked in one of the largest London hospitals for a while, they provide translators for in excess of 29 different languages and dialects of said languages, free of charge and the cost is taken from the hospitals budget.[/quote]

Not free of charge at all Q, as you say comes from the hospital budget, PAID FOR by those who were here first, and can speak the English language.

Do you think the English tax payer would prefer more services for the English, or 29 translations for those arriving who have not paid anything into the system????

Answer is we get what our government tell us we will have, time for a complete change of government me thinks.[:)]

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[quote user="velcorin"]

Looks like you can live in "England", if you wish, then Scooby. Don't think I'll make it, though, I'm second generation Dutch. Oh well, maybe they'll have me.

Missis fails, and she's the one who wants escape France[8-)]

[/quote]

Why not try moving to "Dutchland" ????

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Hi Velcorin

Definition of  being 'English'

Clearly wanting and able to speak English (not necessarily grammatically correct!)   Able to relate to the country, its history, its values, its culture and to wish it well, able to fit in and contribute to society and etc. (My thoughts). 

Others may be able to add to this. What do you think ?

And I am aware what constitutes racism- your comment :  "
racism is discrimination on the grounds of colour, creed or religion, you should be able to hit all 3 if you try". quote Velcorin, was uncalled for, and none mentioned above.

And

From the BBC's web site:

Something posted by a reader :

 I believe that what

makes you British is simply your acknowledgement that that is who you

want to be. If you are prepared to defend the culture and the values of

that culture. Then that's who you are. It's about language, shared

values and a love of the land. Not the pomp and circumstance of state

but a deep abiding love of this little corner of the world and a

willingness to preserve the best of it. (R Hammond)

Tegwini

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"In the UK, my wife worked in one of the largest London hospitals for a while, they provide translators for in excess of 29 different languages and dialects of said languages, free of charge and the cost is taken from the hospitals budget."

I think that this is the sort of thing that many people really object to ie the expense of providing a service like this. If the BNP use this and similar examples I think a great many more people will vote for them at the next election.

Wilko

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Translation services (from government agencies) here in the UK are free for those who can't speak English.

The UK government spends between  £100 million (re:BBC)  and  £500 million (Language Agency- Applied Language) on translations, interpretors etc.

 

It seems the UK police spend over £70000 per day on interpretors , translations etc 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/6140345/Police-spend-70000-a-day-on-translation.html

Tegwini

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[quote user="ebaynut"][quote user="Quillan"][quote user="velcorin"]

[/quote]

In the UK, my wife worked in one of the largest London hospitals for a while, they provide translators for in excess of 29 different languages and dialects of said languages, free of charge and the cost is taken from the hospitals budget.[/quote]

Not free of charge at all Q, as you say comes from the hospital budget, PAID FOR by those who were here first, and can speak the English language.

Do you think the English tax payer would prefer more services for the English, or 29 translations for those arriving who have not paid anything into the system????

Answer is we get what our government tell us we will have, time for a complete change of government me thinks.[:)]

[/quote]

Err we seem to be going off all over the place with this. The people who pay for this service are those that contribute to the system via the various tax's levied in the UK. These tax payments can be from anyone, from any culture, colour, religion and some may not even speak English. Likewise those that don't contribute can come the same groups and not just from "those that were here first", that comment if very close to being racist and in particular something you would expect from a BNP supporter and I am sure you are neither.

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[quote user="Wilko"]

"In the UK, my wife worked in one of the largest London hospitals for a while, they provide translators for in excess of 29 different languages and dialects of said languages, free of charge and the cost is taken from the hospitals budget."

I think that this is the sort of thing that many people really object to ie the expense of providing a service like this. If the BNP use this and similar examples I think a great many more people will vote for them at the next election.

Wilko

[/quote]

I think the cost is a drop in the ocean compared to what has to be kept back from the NHS budget (nearly 1/3rd) to pay people off who sue the NHS. If they want justice have the person charged and taken to court under criminal law, why be greedy and try and take the NHS for every penny they can get? I heard today of yet another case where a persons treatment has been stopped half way through because the NHS ran out of funding and as a result the person will eventually die. It's not in the press yet but I think it will be in the next couple of weeks but it happens a lot these days. These are the types of things I would like to see 'him' and other MP's discuss on QT, things that really impact on people in their day to day life.

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Is not British culture today about consumption, binge drinking, ebay, money, football strips with advertising, tattoos, bling, cars, takeaways, foreign holidays, illegal drugs, tax evasion, cram in more people for increased taxes and keep the house prices high.

If Churchill was alive today he would be contacting no win no fee lawyers to sue advertisers that use his name while swimming in Lidl whisky and smoking smuggled cigars while building walls with Spanish bricks.

Bring back the Empire, flogging and navy rum for all.

 

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[quote user="ebaynut"]

"that comment if very close to being racist and in particular something you would expect from a BNP supporter and I am sure you are neither."

Are you ??????  [:-))]

[/quote]

Absolutely and categorically NOT either. I think it is good to debate these things in a calm non racist way and hopefully without getting too emotional. [:)]

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[quote user="buelligan"]I think it would be useful if you would define the Values and Culture of the "English", tegwini.[/quote]

Not an easy one since we are all so different. But most of us share these values: 

free speech (incl.in print)

equal rights- incl. for females

fair and equal justice for all, with the right to justice for all

education for all- equally, for both sexes

police and military controlled by an elected gov'ment

a democratically elected government, elected freely and fairly

all allowed to vote (incl.  females)

a government without corruption

the right to worship freely - or not, with no repression for non-believers or those who chose to leave their faith

education for all - incl females,       and many more... 

These values are not all  available in many countries.  Such values come from our history and many have been around for centuries.

As for culture, well speaking English, an interest in our country's history and what is happening in our country now. As for music, literature and what is usually considered to be culture, well that varies and changes so much.   But at least an ability to speak and understand English.

I'm sure the French feel the same about all of this - it's not unique to the English !!

Tegwini

 

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