Quillan Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 You didn't miss out on much Tegwini.Having now watched the program I tend to lean towards the comments made by AnOther. Watching his body language and his shacking arms and hands I don't think it was to do with being nervous or angry more to do with his concerns about the possibility of saying what he really means and letting the cat out the bag.I also thought that the main stream parties did seem to squirm a bit when asked about immigration (to name but one subject) by different people from across the ethnic spectrum. The problem with the points system as described by Straw is that its for those that want to get a work permit and them only. If you implement such a system, like Australia, New Zealand, Canada etc you also have to implement the rest of it like the ability to support yourself and not be a drain on those countries resources (like having say a suitable pension which is sufficient to pay for health care etc) before you are allowed in on a permanent or semi permanent basis.To be honest I didn't see much difference between 'him' and the other political members of the panel when it came to not giving direct answers. They all seemed to skirt round them, answer with a question aimed at 'him' or just go off at a complete tangent. They also, in my opinion, refused to acknowledge that the reason many people voted for that 'party' is because they have ignored and have not listened to the British public. So basically yes it is their fault people voted for the BNP and the sooner they get on and address the issues that the general public are most concerned with the sooner we will be rid of this horrid and obnoxious person and his cronies.Just going back to the issue of immigration (as it formed such a large part of last nights program) surely the introduction of ID cards and residency cards would go a long way to monitoring who's in the UK and who's entitled to be there. I am not suggesting thats the sole reason for introducing them (I have suggested other uses like alcohol control for under age drinkers to name another etc in the past). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Only just caught up with this thread, and I did not see the programme as I don't have UK TV --- whatever my views on the BNP, (and I am not going to tell anyone my political views other than than I would never join any political party, but that I would always exercise my vote when possible) I am with Voltaire on this. Once we loose the right of free speech (and I fear that in some cases we already have), civilisation will be the worse for it. I do not agree that hate propaganda from any source should be welcomed, but I do believe that supression of it can lead to much more unpleasant happenings - I am sure we can all think of historical examples (Edited - the example I gave was asterisked out, hence the somewhat fatuous ending to this remark).Better the devil you know .... and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Well, when you consider it was Mr Griffins first time on such a large stage he was not likely to give a perfect performance. Sure he appeared nervous, but most people would and considering the choice of the other panelists and the location of the program, just about everyone was against him who was present.Very interested to hear about Jack Straws father, fancy him of all people not having the guts to fight in the war, and then Jack having the bare faced cheek to tell others whose fathers and family did defend and died stopping this country being taken by the Germans, how they should think. Remember also that anyone can call Mr Griffin "N*** scum, but there are laws which make it impossible for him to say what he truly feels, for fear of jail. Had to laugh at the protesters who shouted/sung "N*** scum get off OUR street", it was the likes of Mr Griffins father in the RAF who fought to keep our country free from invasion for the benefit of their familys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pouyade Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I watched about half the programme , so perhaps missed what I am about to comment upon, tho' from what I have heard, I doubt it. This was great opportunity to expose the BNP not just for the obvious slant taken on race issues, but as a party without policies on others - a proper debate on education, environment, infrasructure, etc, would have drawn NG out as a one trick pony, and with an unpleasant trick at that. They tried too hard to make him come acrossa s bigoted and inarticulate - he can do that all by himself, given enough rope......Pouyade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I thought this programme was most unsatisfactory. Firstly, it didn’t really address the issue of immigration which is the BNP’s main policy. Sayeedi Warsi and a member of the audience both made the point that the BNP’s popularity is due the the main parties refusal to discuss immigration levels. For many years even to raise the subject has invited accusations of racism and last night it still wasn’t properly discussed. Secondly, I was sorry that they changed the usual format of the programme and turned Griffin into a sort of Aunt Sally. There can be few who don’t know his views on race and I would have preferred it if the programme had followed its usual course and discussed major political issues of the moment. The dreadful state of the economy and the postal strike spring to mind as examples. Thirdly, I thought Straw was allowed too much of the available time. I was offended by his assertion that no-one is truly English any more. I am.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterG Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 [quote user="Quillan"]They also, in my opinion, refused to acknowledge that the reason many people voted for that 'party' is because they have ignored and have not listened to the British public. So basically yes it is their fault people voted for the BNP and the sooner they get on and address the issues that the general public are most concerned with the sooner we will be rid of this horrid and obnoxious person and his cronies.[/quote]Absolutely spot on Quillan. Following the disturbances in Burnley, a few years ago, all parties said "they must listen to the people". Did they? Did they heck. Result = Burnley has now 4 BNP councillors...............When will the other parties wake up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 It would have been more interesting if they had had a representative audience or one made up of half BNP supporters. It was like most bloodsports where they attacked a pre-injured animal that wasn't even given fair odds.If Straw and his liberal panellists had actually done some work towards making the UK a better place the bogeyman wouldn't be needed.It is far more worrying that nothing is known of what Jack Straws agenda is - at least buffoon Griffin tells you his daft national socialist ideas - the quiet ones with a secret agenda are a bigger threat.The programme was a complete waste of time and minor diversion to fiddling while Rome burns...More and more people will vote BNP while the regular two party system is just a game, supporting the status quo and just a career path to a massive pension. The lazy useless politicians wanted to end the democratic defecit and now they have let a cat they don't like out of the bag and are so lazy and fumbling they don't know how to put it back in.I am sure Nick Griffin will be offered a pantomime part soon - whether he will be the wicked witch or the ugly sister that's the question...Sadly the average none to bright brit thinks placing an X has more to do with prime time dumbed down TV than selecting people to run the country efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 "Sadly the average none to bright brit thinks placing an X has more to do with prime time dumbed down TV than selecting people to run the country efficiently."And sadly the average none too bright Brit thinks that the only mark permitted in the box is an X.We will never learn anything new about politicians and party from progs such as QT. Whatever the question and however it is worded a true politician responds with the party line.At the moment the BNP has no MPs but imho it won't be long before it does. The "first past the post" system is tailor made for a party with limited national appeal but strong support in selected constituencies.The actions of Rent-a-mob wielding their Unite placards will enhance the appeal of BNP when played back in future party political broadcasts. It makes me wonder "of what are the protesters so afraid?Perhaps the average, none too bright Brit voter?John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Strangely it may seem but I actually agree with most (but not all) of Dogs comments.The audience were deliberately picked (or so I heard reported on the news) from people who had applied to be on the show prior to the announcement that 'he' was going to be on the panel. This was allegedly done to lessen the chances of disruptive influences getting in.Like Hoddy said I would have liked to see much further ranging questions ask of the panel especially covering some of the issues she (and others) have mentioned. I rather suspect that 'he' would have suggested sending the troops in to sort out the Post Office stikers (joke.... but then you never know).I also believe that Straw also refused to join the Combined Cadets Force at his grammar school for the same reason as his father was imprisoned during WW2 in that he is a conscientious objector. I don't have a real problem with this but it is strange as he went to so many lengths as Justice Minister to suppress information under the Freedom of Information act regarding the Iraq war.I don't consider the program a total waste of time because 'he' did say some things which in a way were quite funny, given his political agenda, and which may come back to haunt him like telling the coloured chap who was born, breed, educated and was proud to be British that he would not be repatriated. I thought the chaps reply about having whip-round to sent 'him' and his mates to the North Pole which he might appreciate as its devoid of any colour, or to that effect.I also liked Bonnie Greer, she made me laugh when she said that after the latest legal ruling against his party and membership restrictions that if she were him she would be very afraid. I also liked when she reminded 'him' that there are some who believe that Winston Churchill's mother was quarter native American (although speculative). I'm surprised she didn't mention the Jewish connection as claimed by Moshe Kohn in 1993, again speculative. For 99.9% of people of course neither or both of these claims would be important but if true it does make 'him' look even more stupid given that he uses Churchill for his propaganda.Out of all the things that really sticks in my mind and beggars belief, taking in to account my ethnic background, is that 'he' finally admits he changed his stance on the possibility that the Holocaust may be true based on intercepted radio transmissions in WW2 referring to the slaughter of Jew's on the Eastern Front. He declined to say any more even though Straw gave him imunity from prosecution because he said, to the effect, that if he did he would be liable to prosecution in France and Germany under their Holocaust Denial laws, what a moron. Even the most ignorant of British voters surely must see from that alone what a liar and odious little man he really is.I see he has stated that he expects to be invited back in the future, some chance I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 [quote user="Quillan"] I also believe that Straw also refused to join the Combined Cadets Force at his grammar school for the same reason as his father was imprisoned during WW2 in that he is a conscientious objector. I don't have a real problem with this but it is strange as he went to so many lengths as Justice Minister to suppress information under the Freedom of Information act regarding the Iraq war.[/quote]Well I DO have a problem with this. There they (Jack and his daddy) are sitting on their *rses, expecting the English to go to Germany dying in the process, to save members of his race from the *azis, he then helps in sending our troops into Iraq for what????Gutless **** I would say. Drug dealing son also I believe.This quote springs to mind, What is the definition of a politician? "Someone who will let you die for his country". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nectarine Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 [quote user="Hoddy"]I thought this programme was most unsatisfactory. Firstly, it didn’t really address the issue of immigration which is the BNP’s main policy. Sayeedi Warsi and a member of the audience both made the point that the BNP’s popularity is due the the main parties refusal to discuss immigration levels. For many years even to raise the subject has invited accusations of racism and last night it still wasn’t properly discussed. Secondly, I was sorry that they changed the usual format of the programme and turned Griffin into a sort of Aunt Sally. There can be few who don’t know his views on race and I would have preferred it if the programme had followed its usual course and discussed major political issues of the moment. The dreadful state of the economy and the postal strike spring to mind as examples. Thirdly, I thought Straw was allowed too much of the available time. I was offended by his assertion that no-one is truly English any more. I am. Hoddy[/quote] Hoddy, spot on and well said. !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Can we take it that your not exactly a fan of Mr Straw then EbayNut [;-)] . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 [quote user="Quillan"]Can we take it that your not exactly a fan of Mr Straw then EbayNut [;-)] .[/quote]Are you then? [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegwini Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 'Thirdly, I thought Straw was allowed too much of the available time. Iwas offended by his assertion that no-one is truly English any more. Iam'. HoddyWell I missed that bit Hoddy - I must have nodded off. But I do agree with you. BUT it does say lots about this odious man (Straw not Griffiths). Only in the UK would anyone say this - I don't expect a French politician would dare to say such.But, it's typical of the PC state we live in. Why not spend hundreds of millions on translation services, documents and translators for immigrants who sometimes refuse, or can't be bothered to learn English ? The French don't do this and expect immigrants to make an attempt to fit in - quite right too.I too am English - even with Welsh & Irish blood. But what proportion will be 'English' in 2030 ?Tegwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 The latest bumper sticker being sported where we live is 'You can keep your queen, we just want your country!'. I have to say, I was shocked to say the least!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 ...shocking indeed! You would think that "they" would at least bother to find out that the British refer to her as the Queen...[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Too late for me to watch, but we've recorded it for later. Interesting comments.GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 [quote user="Quillan"]Strangely it may seem but I actually agree with most (but not all) of Dogs comments.[/quote]Noooooooooooo I rescind my early statement I don't know why I had those thoughts and cannot explain why I have changed my mind - it may be illegal in Zimbabwe or Griffberkistan.I have just intercepted some radio messages so I am off to buy a brown shirt and an apron - Ohh and must go into BNP and get an account.I'll be wearing a beret next, smoking cheroots and drinking pernod. Help........................ any how what was Jack Straws fathers surname? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Coeur de Lion Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 [quote user="tegwini"]'Thirdly, I thought Straw was allowed too much of the available time. Iwas offended by his assertion that no-one is truly English any more. Iam'. HoddyWell I missed that bit Hoddy - I must have nodded off. But I do agree with you. BUT it does say lots about this odious man (Straw not Griffiths). Only in the UK would anyone say this - I don't expect a French politician would dare to say such.But, it's typical of the PC state we live in. Why not spend hundreds of millions on translation services, documents and translators for immigrants who sometimes refuse, or can't be bothered to learn English ? The French don't do this and expect immigrants to make an attempt to fit in - quite right too.I too am English - even with Welsh & Irish blood. But what proportion will be 'English' in 2030 ?Tegwini[/quote]About 1/3 from what I read on the Beeb web site the other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Oh dear 'he' does not appear to be a happy bunny and is going to sue the BBC. Thinks they took the pea out of him and made him look stupid. Personally I thought he did that quite nicely himself. (BBC Lunchtime News, should be on the website by now).Even more amazingly 'he' and his 'party' have managed to interview all 8M of the viewers last night and has stated that 85% of them think he was hard done by. Anyone here who watched get interviewed? No, strange that. [8-)] All I can say is they are very hard workers to manage to do that in just around 14 hours, what a plonker. If people can't work out he is a compulsive liar from that then they need their heads examined, assuming theres enough NHS funding of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 [quote user="Dog"][quote user="Quillan"] Strangely it may seem but I actually agree with most (but not all) of Dogs comments.[/quote]Noooooooooooo I rescind my early statement I don't know why I had those thoughts and cannot explain why I have changed my mind - it may be illegal in Zimbabwe or Griffberkistan.I have just intercepted some radio messages so I am off to buy a brown shirt and an apron - Ohh and must go into BNP and get an account.I'll be wearing a beret next, smoking cheroots and drinking pernod. Help........................ any how what was Jack Straws fathers surname?[/quote]Don't worry your survive.Walter Arthur Whitaker Straw (Who's Who 2008, A & C Black, 2008; online edn, Oxford University Press, Dec 2007)You may be thinking of his grandfather who was a German Jew immigrant but I don't know what his name was.No I am not a particular fan of his especially after stopping access to documents on the Iraq war from being released and in general I think hes a bit slimy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Bizzarely one of Straws quotes is... "You're either too soft and you're not doing anything, or you're too hard and you're illiberal.".If Griffin is suing the beeb won't the other panellists join in his action as they also looked equally foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I would think that most white British people will see that here is a man, whose father fought in the RAF against the *azi's, being shouted down by a mob, and as for the other panel members, well done BBC, I guess they just helped to show what is happening in the UK.Remember it is illegal for him to state his views fully, and many will be very cross to see the audience of mainly "new comers" treating him like that.I predict a large swing at the polls to the BNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 [quote user="ebaynut"] I predict a large swing at the polls to the BNP. [/quote] Well thats the real proof of the pudding and of course we don't know how many will be making a protest vote and how many will be 'swayed' by this broadcast. I guess the suing is just to keep people reminded they exist. I rather suspect he went looking for a reason to sue and may even have created the opportunity. The latter is not beyond the nature of the beast I think. Perhaps an Abstention box at the bottom of the ballot slip might not be such a bad idea for those that want to protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 You may have a good point there EBnut, we should all take a moment to think of the suffering poor Mr Griffin has had to endure for his principles and for our elucidation. To tell you the truth, I could almost cry. To think of him bravely bearing the cross of his ideals as he was mocked and scourged by a baying pack of outlanders. What a wonderful human being......[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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