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Question Time 22/10/09


Quillan
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Well I guess many might be aware of what, or more to the point who, will be on Question Time tonight (I really don't want to mention his name as he sickens me). We have already had the debate some time back on these 'people' (I use this word as all the rest of the names I can think of just come out as stars).

Whatever you may think this is a legitamate political party and this guy is a properly elected MEP so has a right to appear if asked. I agree with what the BBC guy said on the lunchtime news that its for the House of Commons to outlaw the party and not the BBC. Too many people from across the house have complained about bias from the BBC in the past and they are trying very hard to disprove this myth.

Personally I am in favour of allowing these people to debate in public and with the public, as in my opinion people will see them for the dangerous idiots they really are i.e. purely racist, extreem right wing and outside of those two things don't have a clue about other social and economic issues. I rather hope (and suspect) it will backfire on this guy as quite frankly I don't think he's the most brightest lampbulb in the box.

I wonder what our panel thinks, should he be allowed on the program or not?

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Having just watched Die Welle (The Wave), I would be inclined to say not.

But we supposedly live in a society where freedom of speech is (mostly) allowed. These are their views and they have a right to have them as much as anyone else has a right to their views. As you say, I think it will do them more harm than good when they do get questioned.

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well Quillan, you and I have debated this point before. I think he should be allowed on Question Time, and also to appear on any other public forum. The BNP is a legitimate party and has a substantial following. Whether you like their policies or not, they have a point of view that many people align with and it's no good saying "we mustn't discuss these things" like immigration, etc. We MUST discuss these things, and openly as there's issues that many people feel strongly about and who have voted for the BNP because none of the major political parties wants to represent their views. So I think we have to have an open and honest debate and get all views, and then leave the public to make up their own mind about who gets their vote at the ballot box. That's democracy.

Likewise, I think any party should be allowed on Question Time and be given an opportunity to present their point of view and defend it, and have it challenged. Unfortunately I think that tonight there will be a 'rent a mob' to shout Nick Griffin down.

And to those who don't like the idea of him being on Question Time - well, like any other television programme there is always an alternative and, ultimately, the 'off' button.
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I have to disagree with you on one point.  I think he really is quite a bright lightbulb and as such, all the more dangerous.

I think that he'll be torn to shreds on QT so let him appear and be dammed.

A good while back Le Penn rose from obscurity to end up challenging Chirac, it was due in a large part to a television performance but that wouldn't happen in this case would it?

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Much as I abhore what this party stands for, they are a legal political party, and as such should be allowed to be heard. I also think he is quite a bright chap, who can also sound very reasonable - which in my book makes him much more dangerous. However, with Bonnie Greer on the panel, (I don't recall who else will be present), I think he'll definitely have to think on his feet.

I do hope the audience will not go over the top, giving the BNP some credence. I just hope he will be allowed his say, and that he doesn't manage to totally restrain himself. Other parties send their people for media training, so I would imagine he has been through something similar; I hope he doesn't come across as a very reasonable person. I imagine the latest immigration figures have a lot of people feeling very concerned just now; he could really capitalise on that. 

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I despise all politicians, but keep a special hospitality suite in my little imaginary hell for those of a more extremist kidney.  I don't really care whether this odious individual appears on television or not.  As a previous poster said; we can use the off button (or in my case, throw out the tv and do something less soul destroying). 

Nectarine, I think you said that this man/party champions the issues that many are concerned about and that is why they are voted for.  I don't think this is true.  I believe Nick Griffin and all his kind, champion hate.  Sadly, I think there are a great many humans who love to hate - and for them joining a "legitimate" party where their secret hobby can actually become a virtue is all too enticing.  What a waste of time and energy![:(]

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IMO there's no question about whether he should be allowed to appear. I fear though that he will come across as calm and reasonable - there's absolutely no chance that he will sit there and rant hate-filled rubbish.

I fear too that the programme may become a bit of a bear pit - Dimbleby may well have his hands full.

It's been recorded (during the day) hasn't it?  I have a feeling that it's normally a live show.

Would love someone like Vince Cable to be a panellist - he'd subtlely tear Griffin apart.

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Like him or hate him, I bet the viewing figures will be the highest ever for question Time. We are all waiting to see if he will show his true colours/ make a Pratt of himself/ come across as Mr nice guy etc. etc...

Personally I can't abide the man and what he stands for, but I will be watching

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I don't gamble but it's odds on there will be a disruption of the programme from some loony leftie in the audience trying to deny free speech.

Let's face it if the major UK political chumps did a proper job the ultra right wouldn't creep out of the woodwork.

I just hope Griffin is on form - I'd ply him with some stiff G&T's in the green room and make sure he had a few lines of Aunties finest.

 

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[quote user="Gardian"]

I fear too that the programme may become a bit of a bear pit - Dimbleby may well have his hands full.

[/quote]

Its sad to see that its not just the program becoming a bear pit but its those that have decided to protest outside.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6408411/BNP-on-BBCs-Question-Time-protesters-breach-police-cordon.html

 

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On the BBC's website 'Have your say'  and in a short time, there are loads of posts, many supporting Griffin,

but most defending free speech. Posters are asked to post a question for Griffin.

Tegwini------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FROM BBC'S 'Have your say'

Had to laugh at the irony of the violent 'anti-fascist' protestors, trying to stop free speech!

Politically Incorrect, Just 7 more months until the end of NuLabour

RECOMMENDED

Recommended by

36

people 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would ask Mr Griffin what he would do to provide

gainful employment for the hordes of beardy lefties

who obviously have

nothing to fill their Thursday afternoons other than protesting.

Tony, Wirral

RECOMMENDED

Recommended by

71

people

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[quote user="gardengirl "]I imagine the latest immigration figures have a lot of people feeling very concerned just now; he could really capitalise on that. [/quote]I'll keep my personal opinion of the BNP to myself but that comment goes to the heart of the matter as it suggests that there is a lot of closet support for the BNP which is currently stifled and repressed for fear of condemnation and abuse such as is already happening outside the gates of the BBC and that is not a healthy situation to have in a supposed free speech democracy.

Did Le Penn's popularity spring from the French public actually changing their minds or simply because the door had been opened for them to say what they privately thought ?

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It's a funny old thing, Free Speech.  And a precious one.  And it's a sad old thing when rascals clothe themselves in the ragged tatters of it to mask their monstrous nakedness and gain protection from the winds of Righteous Thought.  You can bet your sweet asp that those same scoundrels won't be handing out coats if the Winds of Change turn in their direction.  Civilisation does not necessarily come with a guarantee of comfort and there's the rub.

I am always conscious of the possibility that when a "Rent-a-Mob" clocks in - that's exactly what it is - and it may have been rented by anyone.  When looking for motivation, I generally tend to suspect the p(P)arty that benefits most.

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The first bit of early news film I saw made me wonder if they were old enought to vote and if they were did they actually bother? I did find it amusing to see the guy in the thick of it trying to sell newspapers, don't know which one but obviously a brave chap, rather him than me. I can't be bothered to wait up and watch it so I have recorded it and will see it in the morning. The bit I saw on the BBC news did give me the impression that 'he' was floundering somewhat but just like movie clips it might be the best bit and the rest might be rubbish.
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Bonnie Greer just raised an interesting point when referring to the forced change in the BNP's constitution.

She said he should be very worried about it and I read it as an implication that the party could see an influx from those who were previously unable to join.

Would you consider joining the BNP with the aim to subvert it?

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well I stayed up and watched it. Dimbleby did a good job in trying to be fair and give the BNP a chance to speak, but of course Nick Griffin was shouted down (especially by Jack Straw who rambled on and rarely answered the questions that were put to him). Griffin made some good points which weren't pursued, or which were shouted down, and therefore he didn't get much of a chance to expand on his views.

A one to one interview would have been better to have understood what exactly his views and policies were.
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A pretty (not) unedifying squabble, with nothing approaching a knockout blow struck.

My one concern was that there were ripples of applause at some of things that Griffin said, yet not one seeming supporter was given the opportunity to comment. Had that been the case, it might have helped to expose some of his more extreme leanings, which of course he predictably succeeded in 'smoothing'.

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Views and politics aside as a person he came across as an inept 3rd rate orator whom I'm certain would never have ever been nominated for or elevated to any parliamentary position in any other circumstances. I doubt his appearance has gained him any credence other than in the eyes of his die hard supporters.

Frankly I think there was too much personal sniping and not enough real discussion but I guess that was to be expected.

Jack Straw was as expected, his usual odious self.

A one-to-one interview on Hard Talk would have been a far more focused and informative platform.

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Well,  it was a bit late for me & I fell asleep half way through it.

He obviously got a rough ride and deserved it too - especially on his attempt to deny his holocaust denial.

But, out here people are sick of NuLabour and some probably voted BNP to make a protest against our useless government. People feel powerless to influence government in any way.

The lastest figures on the UK's population increases (projected and actual), and the source of the increases do make people here very concerned.

Tegwini

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ANOther - I'm with you, a one to one interview would have yielded far more information and brought out the BNP policies into the open, so that they could be discussed properly, challenged and defended.

Tegwini - I agree with you that the BNP probably got a lot of support as a protest vote against the current government and reflects many people's views that society is changing and they don't have a say. If that's the case, then denying the BNP its voice actually drives more people to them to find out what they stand for and if they propose to close the doors on further immigration, well that's a subject that many people feel is important to them and the BNP will get their vote.

I don't agree with all the BNP policies but I did cheer for one point: Nick Griffin said that the classification of 'English' is now removed from many official forms and (if I remember) the census. Now could you imagine the furore if 'French' was removed from a French questionnaire? It's points like that (and on which he was shouted down and not allowed to expand further) that many people will agree on and want to find out more.

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