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bad taste in my mouth


just john
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I tried a few drags of a cigarette when I was a teenager, but hated them, the dizziness and also it felt like breathing razorblades. Drugs, well not for me either, unless we are talking wine. Tried some weed a couple of times but again, it was wrapped in tabacco, and in any event iI was too drunk to notice the affects.

Capital punishment is a tough one. I like the thought that some people should have their life ended, but in practise I can't bring myself to condone the actual act of taking a life. I guess I am lucky in life not to have faced something so awful that capital punishment would seem the only resonable answer.

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[quote user="Bugbear"] Certainly not drug dealers - or polititions - or bankers. [:)] [/quote]

Cute Bugsy, you knew I'd have to agree (not that I'd murder any of them), especially the politicians, and I blame the banking crisis on politicians as well, starting with Clinton's then Brown's cock-ups; all the bankers (I must admit to needing them occasionally) aren't all merchant bankers.[Www]

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[quote user="Quillan"] Not only do we buy things from China but we borrow shed loads of money from them. Where do you think a lot of the money thats been spend in the US in particular and the UK to 'help' get both countries out of the recession comes from, China.  [/quote]

Urmm, where do think they got this money from in the first place?, Trade with UK and US in particular . . .

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Have just seen UK news - the Chinese Amabassador has been summoned to the FCO (twice in 24 hrs) to be told that he is a very naughty boy and if China does not improve it's record on human rights John in N Lot will not buy any more Chinese takeaways.

Anyone remember the old saying about empty vessels making the most noise?

John

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The Chinese must be quaking in their boots - GB a major world player - not - the Chinese had to get a map out to find where GB is - then they couldn't believe how an American island was so far off shore.

At least this drug smuggler is now doing something useful as they will have sold his body parts by now.

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At least this drug smuggler is now doing something useful as they will have sold his body parts by now

 Thanks for that tasteless footnote, Dog. Whatever we think he was someones son, brother, father - as it happens I'm pretty sure I read that his body is not to be repatriated and he was buried quickly in accordance with Muslim custom.

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

At least this drug smuggler is now doing something useful as they will have sold his body parts by now

 Thanks for that tasteless footnote, Dog. Whatever we think he was someones son, brother, father - as it happens I'm pretty sure I read that his body is not to be repatriated and he was buried quickly in accordance with Muslim custom.

[/quote]

He did better then than was his reported fate on R4 the day before his execution. Most criminals supply the body parts trade in China. If you do not like tasteless do not eat meat.

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The Chinese know all about British demands from them when it comes to dealing with people taking drugs into their country. They tried to stop the British taking tons into China from India in the mid 1800's and we declared war on them for doing it ...,So I am sure Gordon Brown's or any other Englishmans words on how they should treat drug dealers will fall on deaf ears .
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He doesn't sound any more deluded than some of the X factor applicants, yes he was someones father, cousin, friend etc,etc and they just let him carry on  round the world without going to get him. If that was a member of your family would you sit back? Too late once he is in serious trouble but much easier again to blame society rather than the family take responsability and did they inform the foriegn office to have him picked up for his own safety.

Think long and hard about what you would have done if it was a member of your family.

The point is he was caught in possession of drugs in a country that has the death penalty for doing so, found guilty by the countries legal system and received their punishment.

 

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Personally whether China has or has not improved its human rights is another issue, it has not missed any trick. The Chinese have told the world for many years what the penalty is for trafficking/dealing in drugs if you choose to flout the law as Akmal Shaik did you suffer the consequences. Its a very clear message, understood by most people.
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Its strange that we often hear how, in the UK, sentences are reduced. We see complaints about prisoners getting 'an easy life' and in particular ordinary people getting wound up because thieves, drug dealers and murderers have 'rights'. Its refreshing to see a country where people who do these things loose their human rights and are treated in a way that many in the UK feel British criminals should be treated, very, very harshly. We often see that the real victim of these criminals in the UK are ignored and the criminals are concidered the victim's.
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[quote user="Théière"]

He doesn't sound any more deluded than some of the X factor applicants, yes he was someones father, cousin, friend etc,etc and they just let him carry on  round the world without going to get him. If that was a member of your family would you sit back? Too late once he is in serious trouble but much easier again to blame society rather than the family take responsability and did they inform the foriegn office to have him picked up for his own safety.

Think long and hard about what you would have done if it was a member of your family.

The point is he was caught in possession of drugs in a country that has the death penalty for doing so, found guilty by the countries legal system and received their punishment.

[/quote]

 Firstly Theiere, we do not actually know what steps his family took when he was in Poland or any other country, he was an adult and my guess is it would be fairly difficult to persuade him he needed medical attention and deal with authorities  in your own language leave alone in a country where you do not understand the language or the system - hands up how many of you know how to do this in France and are confident enough in your language language skills to see it through ?

 I doubt he was aware of the Chinese attitude to drug importation, I wasn't until I read this thread, why would he be ? The men that put him up to it obviously were.

 

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[quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="Théière"]

He doesn't sound any more deluded than some of the X factor applicants, yes he was someones father, cousin, friend etc,etc and they just let him carry on  round the world without going to get him. If that was a member of your family would you sit back? Too late once he is in serious trouble but much easier again to blame society rather than the family take responsibility and did they inform the foreign office to have him picked up for his own safety.

Think long and hard about what you would have done if it was a member of your family.

The point is he was caught in possession of drugs in a country that has the death penalty for doing so, found guilty by the countries legal system and received their punishment.

[/quote]

 Firstly Theiere, we do not actually know what steps his family took when he was in Poland or any other country, he was an adult and my guess is it would be fairly difficult to persuade him he needed medical attention and deal with authorities  in your own language leave alone in a country where you do not understand the language or the system - hands up how many of you know how to do this in France and are confident enough in your language language skills to see it through ?

You are so right RH, I couldn't so I would have to rely on the foreign office of the British consulate for help, surely his solicitor would know this?

 I doubt he was aware of the Chinese attitude to drug importation, I wasn't until I read this thread, why would he be ? The men that put him up to it obviously were. I am not aware of most of the drug regulations round the world, but don't try to make me believe he thought it was a bag of rice flour! It was greed that made him do it unless someone had a gun to his families head via enemies made in the UK.

The other day I held a large heavy gate open so a mother could exit a building with a push chair, the gate was eight foot high made of steel and had an entry phone with camera, this is the price decent people have to pay because we tolerate reduced sentences and active criminals living amongst us.

The building was a nursery school, what a society we live in [:(]

 

[/quote]
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I read he was always up for easy money schemes like the airline start up plan he had for Poland ... We do not know how many times he visited China or do we know if the people he was taking the 4 kilo shipment to are to be executed next week or already have been .

I recall a guy who wanted cash to build a car involved with drug smugglng connections some years ago .... Was he mentally unstable to get involved there .Mr De Lorean he wanted a lot of money in a hurry .
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How do we know he is mentally unstable. The only people so far to say so are his family in an attempt to save his life. You can't really say becuase you read he was because the only people who have said this is his family. Perhaps if a doctor came forward we could prove the point.

One could, I suppose, argue that he must have been "off his trolly" else he wouldn't have tried to smuggle all that dope in to China although the Chinese seem to have checked him over and found nothing wrong.

As I said if it were one of mine I guess I would try anything I could to get him off the death sentence.

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[quote user="Quillan"]

As I said if it were one of mine I guess I would try anything I could to get him off the death sentence.

[/quote]

If he were one of yours wouldn't have gone and fetched him in Poland if he were off his trolly?

His family and friends are guilty of neglect

http://www.penninecare.nhs.uk/documents/Chapter%2014%20Protection%20for%20People%20who%20Lack%20Capacity.pdf

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[quote user="Théière"][quote user="Quillan"]

As I said if it were one of mine I guess I would try anything I could to get him off the death sentence.

[/quote]

If he were one of yours wouldn't have gone and fetched him in Poland if he were off his trolly?

His family and friends are guilty of neglect

http://www.penninecare.nhs.uk/documents/Chapter%2014%20Protection%20for%20People%20who%20Lack%20Capacity.pdf

[/quote]

I probably would not have let him go anywhere unaccompanied so it wouldn't be an issue.

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 Theire, Honestly I think you must have lead a somewhat sheltered existence, how on earth do you expect his friends and family to be able to go and fetch him, the man himself obviously thought he was rational.  Should they have kidnapped him ?

 I have a friend who is very good company and could probably sell the proverbial fridges to eskimos, but the truth is that they have engaged in one hair brained scheme after another and they believe each thing is going to be a great success, no amount of persuading, cajoling or even mocking will change their minds......this guy was probably a step up from my friend but I can picture the situation only too easily....

Q, Doctors that  have seen  some of the thousands of emails this guy sent (in huge type, something like 70 point) have said it is obvious there was something wrong. For instance he was emailing politicians and celebrities saying he could have stopped terrorist action if he had been allowed to broadcast a message.....

Additionally I have read that  the trial in which he was allowed to represent himself is said to have lasted just 30 mins with the judge laughing at him.......

Yes he was wrong, but I don't think China have shown anything like progress in the field of human rights

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

 Theire, Honestly I think you must have lead a somewhat sheltered existence, He he, compared with some maybe but I have lived a bit too. how on earth do you expect his friends and family to be able to go and fetch him, the man himself obviously thought he was rational.  Should they have kidnapped him ? When someone is suffering a mental illness what they think is irrelevant, the medical doctors decide whether to section them or not. Should they have kidnapped him? what ever you call it, visiting him abroad etc etc he maybe still alive if they had done something.

 I have a friend who is very good company and could probably sell the proverbial fridges to eskimos, but the truth is that they have engaged in one hair brained scheme after another and they believe each thing is going to be a great success, no amount of persuading, cajoling or even mocking will change their minds......this guy was probably a step up from my friend but I can picture the situation only too easily....Have you read Richard Branson's autobiography?

Q, Doctors that even some of the thousands of emails this guy sent (in huge type, something like 70 point) have said it is obvious there was something wrong. For instance he was emailing politicians and celebrities saying he could have stopped terrorist action if he had been allowed to broadcast a message..... Again why did the family not take any action then?

Additionally I have read that  the trial in which he was allowed to represent himself is said to have lasted just 30 mins with the judge laughing at him.......The French laugh at me trying to speak French he was appointed a lawyer.

Yes he was wrong, In law that is all it takes but I don't think China have shown anything like progress in the field of human rights True

[/quote]

A few years ago some friends fell in with a bad lot in Amsterdam, it took a very short conversation in the pub and we all chipped in to bring them home before it was too late with one of us travelling to Amsterdam to fetch them.

During the discussion on the Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi you were sure he was guilty despite an ever growing case that his conviction was unsound and his lack of opportunity for an appeal British human rights?

By comparison Akmal Shaikh was caught red handed with 4 kilo of drugs should have been let off under human rights despite the harm those drugs could have caused on the streets. Great Britain ruined Canton with its opium trade and the Chinese have long memories, what's done is done and the lesson has been broadcast to the world.

 

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I read it was the appeal that took 30 minutes but to be honest there is so much out there about this that all conflicts with each other that you can't get to the facts or perhaps one of the stories is correct but which one, who knows. Likewise I have read about none of the 'activities' that you have described which he has allegedly done (I don't mean that sarcastically). I have also not read or seen anything about doctors. It seems his direct family have done nothing and have said nothing, its been his cousins that went to China to plead for his life which all seems a bit strange to me but without any confirmed facts (other than he is now dead) its very difficult to draw any conclusion.
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