When oh when ?

[Quillan]

[quote user="Frederick"]How  many Muslim countries have Christian members of their parliaments voted in to govern them like we have Muslim ones  in the UK representing us ?[/quote]

The first one that comes to mind is Egypt which has around 6 I believe, a bit a 'googling' may bring out more but then are we really interested?

[just john]

[quote user="Quillan"]

 [quote user="just john "]

I believe the articles show the confrontational aspects of the fundamentalists and the restrictions of freedom in Islamic cultures irrespective  of state compared to the opposing views expressed by the west. Taliban and Al qaeda seem to be merciless in their approach to governing their own and dealing with opposition views. Not a lot of diplomacy visible in their dictatorial demands or womens rights.[/quote]

Actually if you read the Koran Muslim women have more rights than Catholic women, the most immediate right that come to mind is that they can get a divorce. [/quote]

The point made is that despite the Koran, Islam is interpreted by fundamentalists like Taliban and Al qaeda in a ridiculous, constrained (and different) way with people especially women not allowed any of their rights, education, employment, music, driving, not even allowed to leave the house in some cases, nor simple modern conveniences,

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/KL24Ak01.html

[NickP]

[quote user="Dog"]So what are you so unhappy about?[/quote]

Might be something to do with the fact that it is unlikely that you would be allowed to have a pro British demonstration, in say Saudi Arabia or Iran. Incidentally I don't notice a lot of the same type of islamic demonstrations in France.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Quillan"]Can you give an example of this happening?[/quote] Yes, HERE, and IMO the reasoning for the judgement was correct, that they (the magistrates) 'felt the words on the banner were likely to cause someone distress, and they did not find it as reasonable' !

Clearly though what is judged unreasonable or likely to cause distress in Aberporth Wales is viewed very differently in London but perish the thought that the difference could be who is doing the protesting ?

I'm sure I could find more examples however it's the principals not the specifics I'm really getting at.

[Quillan]

Nick, yes they do. The last big one was in Paris at the end of Dec 2008.

John, if you read further down in my post we are actually singing off the same song sheet on this. Its like many things in life there always two or more ways to read something. Some extreme right wing groups use the bible as justification to attack Jews for example claiming the bible says its right to do so. People see what they want to see and don't look beyond that.

This is the biggest problem with religion and as somebody once said "I don't have a problem with God, its religion I have a problem with".

[krusty]

[quote user="Bugbear"]will the pathetic UK government finally take some action against these bloody people.

Read this and get angry.


[/quote]

Don't just get angry , do something.

The organizer still wants it to happen , I do not think it will.

But if it does , lets see what happens.

[Iceni]

[quote user="just john "]

The point made is that despite the Koran, Islam is interpreted by fundamentalists like Taliban and Al qaeda in a ridiculous, constrained (and different) way with people especially women not allowed any of their rights, education, employment, music, driving, not even allowed to leave the house in some cases, nor simple modern conveniences,

[/quote]

It is the Koran itself that is being interpreted. There are extremists in all religions, those who blindly follow the written word believing it to be absolute. For whatever reasons the followers of Islam seem particularly susceptible to those choosing to select and advocate the violent exhortations against non believers and manipulating the gullible.

BTW I hope JGB and his master, BO'B are ready to take their war to a 3rd front, the Yemen.

John

[Quillan]

Seeing the news tonight it seems they have but not directly.

[Frederick]

The Christian community in Pakistan are at this time living  in fear  On Xmas day many had to have a guard to go to church . Eight christians in Pakistan have been burned alive and one church subjected to a granade attack...

It is from within the Pakistani community  living a good and well protected life in the UK that the call for a Muslim UK is coming ...I  can soon see the day when they might need protecting themselves to go to the Mosque  Just like the christians they have forced to seek protection to go to theiir place of worship

.I can  see the day when people will stop buying in Muslim run shops .....garages ..etc such will become the devision in society. I know of one Garage where its happening now ..

One incident resulting in loss of life  brought about by the groups such as the ones calling for the Wootten Basset Muslim demonstation march could be all it takes ..

 If the leaders of the Muslims living in the UK fail to take control of their hotheads then they can expect their way of life to change ..it is inevitable .People will be pushed only so far then they snap .

These Muslims who want to go to Whootten Bassett  are the best recruiting sergeants the BNP can ever hope for .

People are now saying that Labour who no doubt  need the Muslim vote will not deal with these fanatics within the Muslim community.they are frightened to..In protest  many.will vote BNP. 

We are supposed to be fighting a war ..yet we permit this community within our shores to  attack us on our own ground ...And we let them send our currency to help finance our enemy's ..how stiupid is that ? When are we going to freeze these cash movements.?..    WW2 we interned those we thought were organising aginst us from within... .

Now they have announced they are going to Wootten Bassett to demonstrate   no doubt hundreds of ex soldiers will have already decided to be there to greet them ..Just what  these adgitators expect to happen ...This  will have to be banned .This one I think could be a flash point .  

[NickP]

Quillan "Nick, yes they do. The last big one was in Paris at the end of Dec 2008."

I don't doubt you are right, but I can't find any evidence. So I still ask. in how many Islamic countries would we be allowed to march in, in support of Britain. Unfortunately democracy seems to work against us, as the other lot don't recognise it, unless it suits them.

[Frederick]

There is a Facebook campaign with over 120.000 signatures in less than 48 hours by people showing alarm and distress at the Islam4UK proposal for the march. Family members of fallen soldiers in Afganistan have stated they will be there .. I think the facebook site might just show these Islamic Extremists what they could get in the way of a reception in Wootton Bassett... I dont think they will have the guts to turn up on the day . They are going to need a lot of extra Police thats for sure .

This from news site 2 hours ago .. A

spokesman for rightwing group the English Defence League said if the march took place it would "descend" on the home address of Anjem Choudary and demonstrate outside two mosques he frequented.

Tom Robinson said the group had discussed organising a counter-march in Wootton Bassett but felt the best way to register its objections would be to protest outside addresses connected to Choudary. He said he did not believe the march would actually take place in Wootton Bassett.

The EDL has organised demonstrations in a number of cities in England and its Welsh arm, the Welsh Defence League, has done the same in Wales. The EDL marches have caused community tension

[AnOther]

IMO the appropriate response would be for the good people of WB to turn up in their thousands and simply turn their backs on the Islam4UK protestors and stand in complete in silence.

Sadly the extremists from the likes of the BNP and other careeragitators and trouble makers will ensure that could not happen so sadly I cannot see this passing off peacefully.

[Frederick]

It cant be peacefully carried out when on the EDL web site people are advocating taking bags of pigs blood and pork bellies to be thrown at the marchers . The support for the EDL has just shot up it seems over this .

[velcorin]

As a former resident of Wooden Bucket, I think it absolutely appropriate to hold this protest march, why not? there is a large muslim population. It is just a which is just a dormitory town for Swindon, all 70s and 80s Wimpey and council housing estates. I've not seen any coverage on french TV, so can't comment on what the media shows, but speaking to friends who still live in WB, all they moan about is one big media scrum, more cameras than mourners, every time more stage managed than last one.

[Quillan]

[quote user="velcorin"]As a former resident of Wooden Bucket, I think it absolutely appropriate to hold this protest march, why not? there is a large muslim population. It is just a which is just a dormitory town for Swindon, all 70s and 80s Wimpey and council housing estates. I've not seen any coverage on french TV, so can't comment on what the media shows, but speaking to friends who still live in WB, all they moan about is one big media scrum, more cameras than mourners, every time more stage managed than last one.[/quote]

Funny enough I stumbled across their council website the other day reminding the community in very large, bold letters when to turn out next (actually more of a demand than a request). Its a good thing for people to show their respect to these poor soldiers who have given their lives for a corrupt government but I did not get a good feeling when I visited the towns website, too commercial or political perhaps in its undertones.

I did hear from an old mate of mine who lives nearby that its a bit like Prince Charles's wedding long very thin lines or loads of people squeezed together in one place to make it look 'busy' for the media. Not having seen it in person myself I can't say if that is true or not but my mate is normally pretty trustworthy.

[Richard51]

Given the number of dead Afghan civilians maybe they have a point?

[powerdesal]

[quote user="Richard51"]Given the number of dead Afghan civilians maybe they have a point?

[/quote]

I dont doubt the civilian casualties in Afghanistan, I very much doubt the degree of blame being placed on the Allied forces.

Irrespective of this, I consider that WB is not an apprpriate place for such a protest, large muslim population or not.

It may be a grotty dormitory town, I cant remember noticing much about it at all when driving, on the odd occasion, to / from RAF Lynham. It has however achieved a position as a 'focus' of remembrance, rather like a cenotaph.

This focus may be media inspired now, it certainly wasn't at the beginning. The same thing happens in Oxford on the road to the JR hospital, but that doesn't get the media attention.

The protest march should not take place. If it does there will, inevitably be a major confrontation between idiots on both sides. No one will gain and there may certainly be losers nationally, on the Muslim ''side'' as violence spreads from the focal point.

Can anyone really say that this is the outcome they want to see?

[Dog]

Anything to raise public awareness would be good - the British WASP's are just too complacent. They will soon be losing the second war in Afghanistan and at cost very high in lives and money that can be ill afforded. Didn't they do history at school?

[Quillan]

You don't have to go back that far either. The Russians back in the late 70's early 80's were fighting 'the rebels' and in one case sent 600 tanks, gun ships and personnel carriers against just one village (source). There were reports of the Russian's wiping whole towns out, unfortunately the men were away so only women and children were killed, all of them, by accident. Makes the American massacres in Vietnam look tame in comparison. Guess who gave 'the rebels' money and guns to fight the Russians, you got it the US and now the rebels have turned the same guns on them and our lads. Like in Iraq we have to fight a war with rules except we are the only ones playing by the rules. The Russians didn't but they still lost so to think we would do any better is just plain stupid. Its not our war, we have no right to be there and our troops should return home as quickly as possible.

I see on C5 news tonight they interviewed the chap who is running the demonstration, he claims it is only a gerneral anti war protest.

PS. Dog - thats an American thing (WASP's), many English might not know what it means and confuse it with a rugby club.

[Dog]

[quote user="Quillan"]

You can look at more recent events that give a better idea of what has happened in the more recent past. [/quote]

Time for that recently offered recent IQ test.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Dog"]Anything to raise public awareness would be good - the British WASP's are just too complacent. They will soon be losing the second war in Afghanistan and at cost very high in lives and money that can be ill afforded. Didn't they do history at school?[/quote]

 I wonder why you assume the public are not aware   ?

Interesting piece about Prince Charles and his atitude to the war here

[Quillan]

[quote user="Dog"][quote user="Quillan"]

You can look at more recent events that give a better idea of what has happened in the more recent past. [/quote]

Time for that recently offered recent IQ test.

[/quote]

Thanks for that, written in haste during an advert break whilst watching a repeat of the Xfactor final and the impeccable Simon Cowell. gods gift to the music industry, very good stuff don't you know.

[Bugsy]

The meeting, last night, between the father of a soldier killed and the organiser of Muslims4UK summed all this up really.

Part of the discussion, not word-perfect but from memory.

"Disregarding, for a moment, the rights or wrongs of this war, do you not feel sadness at the loss of so many young british lives ?"

"No, not at all"

"Then you are NOT British, and never will be"

Says it all, really.

[AnOther]

Nor even human [:@]

[Marym2]

Bugbear

Never a truer sentence said.