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Multi-lingual UK- at what cost?


tegwini
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Guys stop and think - the government in UK just want more people because more people equals more tax and more tax means politicians get more powerful and much richer. Nanny state terrribly sensible but useless jobs are created so that these people vote for the party that doles out easy money jobs. Meanwhile UK sinks further and further behind a fourth world country and the lazy no good politicians get rich and buy houses and live abroad on massive state paid pensions.
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But none of this is the point is it, it does not matter where people come from, what religion they are, what colour their skin is etc its the ability to speak the language of the country to which they have decided to move to and that if language is a problem they have to put in place someway of overcoming the problem and not rely on the state to sort it out for them.
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[quote user="Richard51"]I'm guessing of course that these new mum's will be happy to pay for a cot, pram, car seat, new baby clothes, toys etc etc...just not the translator.....
[/quote]

 Just imagine this - the translations are provided and it is decided to discontinue them - can you imagine the outcry, from those who are tax/NI paying immigrants, from every charity to do with a specific condition, from charities like Help the Aged through to National Childbirth Trust......

Investing in delivering healthy children who have at least the potential to grow up to be tax payers, is to our benefit..

Frankly I think this  is a soft, rather lazy target.

 

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[quote user="Quillan"]But none of this is the point is it, it does not matter where people come from, what religion they are, what colour their skin is etc its the ability to speak the language of the country to which they have decided to move to and that if language is a problem they have to put in place someway of overcoming the problem and not rely on the state to sort it out for them.[/quote]

In an ideal world, yes, but we don't live in an an ideal world, no matter how good your intentions no one picks up a language overnight, what are they supposed to do, wait until there language is good enough before being ill or getting treatment - or perhaps there are forums like this in their native language, where they could ask for Doctors from their home country, just like the requests you see on here, time and time again.

 

 

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

In an ideal world, yes, but we don't live in an an ideal world, no matter how good your intentions no one picks up a language overnight, what are they supposed to do, wait until there language is good enough before being ill or getting treatment - or perhaps there are forums like this in their native language, where they could ask for Doctors from their home country, just like the requests you see on here, time and time again.

 

 

[/quote]

What are they supposed to do? If they are concerned about their lack of language skills,  don't bother coming until they are more proficient.  Their call.

Or, as has already been said, pay for translators themselves.

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[quote user="woolybanana"]RH, you touched the solution there; let charities provide and pay for these services.[/quote]Yup, if we cannot afford the basics for our citizens (of whatever hue) let's set up a charity and rely on that instead. 

I still do not see what is wrong with providing informaion on something as basic as healthcare in multiple languages.  What gets me is the inefficiency of a system which sends multiple translations to all. - many of whom just don't need them  Better to make the sytem more efficient - maybe by providing translated material on-line, available at terminals in hospitals/libraries etc.  There has to be a cheaper solution which would satisfy all.  

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[quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="woolybanana"]RH, you touched the solution there; let charities provide and pay for these services.[/quote]Yup, if we cannot afford the basics for our citizens (of whatever hue) let's set up a charity and rely on that instead. 

I still do not see what is wrong with providing informaion on something as basic as healthcare in multiple languages.  What gets me is the inefficiency of a system which sends multiple translations to all. - many of whom just don't need them  Better to make the sytem more efficient - maybe by providing translated material on-line, available at terminals in hospitals/libraries etc.  There has to be a cheaper solution which would satisfy all.

 

[/quote]It's also common knowledge that never obliging people to learn a

language isolates them from the rest of society, and  also means that it would be almost impossible to get a job.

Tegwini
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 Tegwini, Many of the people who would take advantage of translations and translators are the wives and children of men who have come here to work - often their culture is such that making contact with them in the first place is not easy, when they need medical treatment we have an opportunity to engage with them and possibly encourage the learning of English.

Like Coops I think we could make economies in the way we tackle the problem, but also I think many immigrants do take people with better language skills with them to medical appointments. Its emergencies that are a problem.

If we are keen on re directing monies to more worthwhile projects lets take a good look at the management structure of the NHS or stop banks rescued by the tax payer giving out obscene bonuses which we are paying for.

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

If we are keen on re directing monies to more worthwhile projects lets take a good look at the management structure of the NHS or stop banks rescued by the tax payer giving out obscene bonuses which we are paying for.

[/quote]

Absolutely, spot on, thats exactly what should be going on. Its been well documented over the years how 'top heavy' the NHS is and those people in these positions are getting £90k plus salaries because 'they need to attract the expertise from the private sector' which has to be a joke in its self. How on earth did they get their expertise if these are new jobs, there's only so many private hospitals around to learn these skills and some of the jobs have never existed in either the public or private sector before. I think its also interesting that these 'super' hospitals were supposed to be better run and provide better services than those they replaced yet when you follow the news they are failing in just the same way. If the system is rotten from the start building more hospitals is not the answer. The answer lies in cutting useless and unproductive overheads and using the money to improve the existing hospitals.

A good example is the ambulance service, they sold of the stations and land, got the ambulances to be mobile and used fire stations to accommodate the crews and ambulances when not in service. This didn't work so now you may notice they are building new ambulance stations, the problem is the cost of land has gone up and they also have to pay for the actual build as well, another total waste of money.

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Hello

I think the comparisons as per usual are not like for like, Quillan, I'm presuming, comparing an inner london hospital (needles, toilet situation etc.) to one in rural france for example.  I now live in rural UK, our hospital is small and very clean, my son was ill recently and was seen by a doctor immediatley as he was in France.  The french experiecnce though was throughly scarey as they wanted to send me son to a phychiatrist, I can speak french but to this day still dont know why!!  They never addressed me or my son, just talked amongst themselves, this was my only experience of consultants in France and if you think an english consultant is arrogant, think 100 fold and you are near to this french guy! 

I have no issue with services being translated, why not, it is health we are talking about here.

Panda

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So many Docs in France and UK were born abroad and speak good English. The French Consultants I have met were friendly, spoke English and gave me their phone numbers so I could ring at any time if I had a problem or a query. My GP here is an amicable chap and tells me all about his latest girlfriends - I have to tell him to take it easy as he is my age but his girlfriends are in their early thirties. I have also found him buying whisky in the supermarket more than once. My brother that is a Doc and a Surgeon was very impressed with the health care I have had in France.

Wouldn't it be quicker if we all learned Urdu as it will be the major language in the west soon?

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I see that now the government is giving free computers and internet access away to those in need, I wonder how many languages are supported?

 

Quick eligibility check
Have a look eligibility requirements below. You may be able to qualify for a Home Access grant if you:

• Answer yes to at least one question in Section two

Section Two:
Do you receive at least one of the following?
• Free school meals for your child***
• Income based Jobseeker’s Allowance
• Income support
• Child Tax Credit but not Working Tax Credit and an income of less than £16,040
• Guaranteed Pension Credit (not Savings Credit)
• Income-based Employment Support Allowance
• Support under Part VI of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999

It might pay them to throw in a travel adaptor for good measure.

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[quote user="Chancer"]

I see that now the government is giving free computers and internet access away to those in need, I wonder how many languages are supported?

 

Quick eligibility check

Have a look eligibility requirements below. You may be able to qualify for a Home Access grant if you:

• Answer yes to at least one question in Section two

Section Two:

Do you receive at least one of the following?

• Free school meals for your child***

• Income based Jobseeker’s Allowance

• Income support

• Child Tax Credit but not Working Tax Credit and an income of less than £16,040

• Guaranteed Pension Credit (not Savings Credit)

• Income-based Employment Support Allowance

• Support under Part VI of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999

It might pay them to throw in a travel adaptor for good measure.[/quote]

Or even some details of how to re-sell them on ebay! 

I know that the Japanese, one of the most developed and intelligent nations, don't have them as we do in all homes and in huge numbers in schools. Goodness knows how - or if ever, the UK will be able to reduce its national debt with expenditure like this!

Tegwini

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[quote user="Russethouse"] You never know, perhaps the computers will be used to help find work or even learn the language [;-)][/quote]

You're such an optimist RH!

Invariably we value things we have worked for and paid for  - and the opposite also applies.

Roll on a change of government, but whoever it will be,  they have an impossible task ahead of them.

Tegwini

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[quote user="tegwini"]
Roll on a change of government, but whoever it will be,  they have an impossible task ahead of them.

Tegwini
[/quote]

Which is why I have said for the last one and the one to come its not the election you want to win because things won't change, there will be cuts and more cuts plus removal of VAT exemption and a general increase in tax's. When I was looking around for info about where the NHS budget was spend I came across something which shows how the budget will increase (about £8Bn in the next two years) but what was more interesting is the geographic areas that will be cut and those that will get more. The biggest cuts (from memory) were in areas like Birmingham, Coventry, Bradford and alike but the biggest rises were in places like Oxford, Surrey etc. You seem to get the picture that middle 'white' England will get more money at the cost of those area's that suffer the most through unemployment and low social and economic deprivation. Obviously aimed at the voting community and they call themselves socialist? I have tried to find the document, I know it was a PDF file but typical of the Internet you never seem to be able to find the same thing twice in the same place, if I do find it I will place a link.

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[quote user="Quillan"]

and they call themselves socialist?

[/quote]Forgive me Quillan, but I don't think anybody (except for those on the "other side") would ever consider New Labour to be socialists!

What was once my party has never been the same since it dumped clause 1V of its Constitution.  [:@][:(]

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Quillan (from memory) on average 70% of national heathcare budgets are spent on the over 55s. Could be the answer as to why there will be a switch from areas with a young population to areas with aging populations. A few years ago I was involved with a PFI project. The levels of NHS expenditure in places like Torquay and Worthing was 10-15 times the national average, due to the age profule of the population.
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[quote user="tegwini"][quote user="Russethouse"] You never know, perhaps the computers will be used to help find work or even learn the language [;-)][/quote]

You're such an optimist RH!

Invariably we value things we have worked for and paid for  - and the opposite also applies.

Roll on a change of government, but whoever it will be,  they have an impossible task ahead of them.

Tegwini
[/quote]

Tegwini,  If you have low expectations of people they will very often be fulfilled....

Q, I don't know about other area's but I do know that the JR hospital in Oxford  is fighting cuts and if you look at cuts they have been  nationwide   

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

[quote user="tegwini"][quote user="Russethouse"] You never know, perhaps the computers will be used to help find work or even learn the language [;-)][/quote]

You're such an optimist RH!

Invariably we value things we have worked for and paid for  - and the opposite also applies.

Roll on a change of government, but whoever it will be,  they have an impossible task ahead of them.

Tegwini

[/quote]

Tegwini,  If you have low expectations of people they will very often be fulfilled....

Q, I don't know about other area's but I do know that the JR hospital in Oxford  is fighting cuts and if you look at cuts they have been  nationwide   

[/quote]

RH

I'm being realistic - and you also spoke of cuts in

hospitals - NO government now - or for a quite a few years, can afford

such expenditure.

Tegwini

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There are hundreds of things as a country we can't afford,  but all your suggestions for cuts  seem to target the already disadvantaged or at the poorer end of society. Let's not do anything for them - then we'll be in the same or worse mess for evermore......

We can't afford to let the Royal Bank of Scotland, owned largely by the taxpayer,  pay out bonuses, but we are! We can't afford so many management staff in the NHS, and for them to get better average benefits, but we do...

 

 

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The thing I saw was for areas, which I guess is trusts, and it didn't mention hospitals specifically. I guess, without finding it again, that they are talking about regional health authorities and how they spread the money about is up to them. Perhaps Oxford(shire) has the increase for something in particular, a new hospital somewhere, upgrading GP's computer systems, more secretaries for GP surgeries or perhaps paying for more dentists to do NHS work, to be honest I don't have a clue. I mentioned Oxford(shire) because its one I remember along with Surrey (as I lived their once) and I noticed a few other areas that I would consider affluent or 'white' middle class (well more than the ones loosing the money) and just thought it rather odd, given that was the 2009/1010 expenditure (as far as I remember) it seemed to be more of a political budget for the NHS than sending the money to where it might be needed the most.
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