Jump to content

Multi-lingual UK- at what cost?


tegwini
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well - it's true!

The waste in the NHS can only be enormous because of the crackpot ideas they have.

Today I had to book an outpatient's appointment on line, here in Wiltshire, (Salisbury), and we are considered to be in the sticks, not muti-ethnic London,   and  not could help but notice that I could have done it in 17 different languages. 

There is a telephone no. and presumably they have either skilled linguists in 17 languages, or perhaps a machine - neither are cheap.

Recently I had to make some 'official' calls to France - I did them in French - perhaps not wonderful French, but I made the effort as I had to.

Is it any wonder the NHS is broke and charities  have to regularly raise funds for equipment, facilities etc. And they cheap-skate on cleaning.      Hence many hospitals are not clean - including the A&E at Salisbury District Hospital. (A large hospital serving thousands).   I have seen it !! and at a quiet time with staff sitting around, and blood on the floor.

Tegwini

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 75
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

It seems things have not improved then but not wishing to out do you it was over 20 different languages plus in London and its not just the hospitals its the council offices as well, even our Council Tax bills were multi-lingual with further translations available on request. I know where you are coming from and actually agree with you on this. I believe personally that the old 'left wing' approach of free health care to all in the UK is totally out of step with the real world, many things have changed since its conception and it has to move with those changes. I strongly believe that the UK should adopt the EU law on this in that if you are an EU citizen then you are covered by your EU health card so there is no problem. If you are not then you either have to pay or be registered with the Inland Revenue for tax and must have contributed to the system. If you hold a UK passport then obviously its free. The UK cannot and should not carry the financial liability for this.

My wife worked in a large London hospital and she told me how many times she had to phone up for a translator, they are agency staff and the hospital pays for them plus they are not cheap. In France like many other countries if you don't speak the language its up to you to provide your own translator at your own cost. Fortunately many doctors and specialists in France do speak English but I have used a translator at times when I felt my French was not up to the job. I can't see why the UK should be any different. Unfortunately I can't see that whoever holds the reins of government that it will ever change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those who know me will attest that I was with others responsible for setting up a NHS complaints procedure that was transparent.

No details necessary here.

However one complaint was from a Moslem couple whose son had died in hospital and then they obviously had to see him in the morgue.

With respect they treat the deceased somewhat differently to us. They were totally lost and obviously distressed to see the way we treat deceased souls.

It was all resolved for future in that we had a translation service made available and indeed the staff to be made aware of the different approach.

Should we deny a grieving couple their devout beliefs?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok a differing concept. I am Welsh and South Walian to boot. Should we allow a north Wales Local Authority whose first language is Welsh to employ a translator to translate Welsh documents to English for those who do not speak the language. Be careful there is a Welsh Language Act.

I do not speak Welsh.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pre 2002 I did a lot of work for the NHS they had a team of  15 translators in our county - it was great for a printer in a 'give a leaflet' society, every leaflet in 14 languages. Don't ask why there were more translators than languages.

The biggest waste and corruption was in the management though and the landlords supplying houses to illegals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="dragonrouge"]

Should we deny a grieving couple their devout beliefs?[/quote]

But it is the language issue here that is the problem - and NOT religious or other customs and practices.   Although some religious practices for the dead would be difficult to allow - for example zoroastrianism, or even Hindu  openair pyres. Unfortunately coming to the UK does mean immigrants have to fit in with the laws of the land.

.

What would be the solution in France ?   It seems to me that immigrants and other religious and ethnic groups mostly speak French - the French insist on it.   We Brits should have 'compromise' as our middle name.  

The consequence is that UK public services, taxpayer funded too,  are often inferior to those in France.

Tegwini

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The consequence is that UK public services, taxpayer funded too,  are often inferior to those in France.

Isn't that a little simplistic ?

I know of a situation where an immigrant wife could just get by in English after many years, when she had a stroke her family took turns in sleeping by her bed so that she could make herself understood.

Then there are the pregnant women with little understanding of the language and all the difficulties that brings...

Making things like appointment making easy in many languages could save us money in the long term, after all some conditions are a lot more expensive to treat if left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your right in thats its a language problem and not a religious one. The French do not insist that you speak French unless you apply for citizenship and that goes for any nationality from within or without the EU.

What people do have to realize is that if you choose to live in another country which has a different language that its the individuals problem and not that of the government of the country in which they have chosen to live. They therefore have to learn the language or alternatively use a translation service at their own expense.

Likewise they should also be aware of any legal implications which may stop them from practicing their religion. These implications may not be of a religious type but may effect their religious practices, an example may be that for health and safety  legislation may not permit open air pyres. Its not a 'anti their religion' law, just a general one. Likewise a law that those of the Jewish faith have had to come to terms with is autopsies. These are not allowed under Jewish law unless to the benefit of others. However if a person dies in hospital in certain circumstances a autopsy has to be carried out. Again not a law against religion but it is a law.

With regards to the NHS wasting money you may be interested to know that nearly 1/3 of the budget is kept aside for litigation and compensation payments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Quillan"]

With regards to the NHS wasting money you may be interested to know that nearly 1/3 of the budget is kept aside for litigation and compensation payments.

[/quote]

I knew about the high cost of litigation/compensation  that the NHS has to fund, but didn't think it was as high as a third!  That would be billions?

I can't say I approve of this, but if personnally involved and negligence was the issue I expect that I might be somewhat litiguous, but hopefully not.  Daily I 'touch wood'  for good health for family and myself.

What happens in France ?

Tegwini

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Russethouse"]

Isn't that a little simplistic ?[/quote]Only a little R/H?

Well,  Tegwini, if you're ever ill or have medical problems when you're over here, just don't come on here asking for the nearest English speaking medic.  Get your French up to totally fluent standard before you set foot over here and try using any of the public services. Then and only then might I begin to have a shred of sympathy for your viewpoint on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="Russethouse"]

Isn't that a little simplistic ?[/quote]Only a little R/H?

Well,  Tegwini, if you're ever ill or have medical problems when you're over here, just don't come on here asking for the nearest English speaking medic.  Get your French up to totally fluent standard before you set foot over here and try using any of the public services. Then and only then might I begin to have a shred of sympathy for your viewpoint on this.

[/quote]

I think you are being a little harsh Coops, nobody asks to have an accident or be taken ill, also I didn't realise that when I go on holiday it was obligatory to be fluent in the local language, just in case. My wife had the misfortune to developed peritonitis when  we first arrived  in France and our language skills were very poor. The help treatment and assistance we received were absolutely first class,  nobody worried about our lack of French, in fact they went out of their way to help us

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="Russethouse"]

Isn't that a little simplistic ?[/quote]Only a little R/H?

Well,  Tegwini, if you're ever ill or have medical problems when you're over here, just don't come on here asking for the nearest English speaking medic.  Get your French up to totally fluent standard before you set foot over here and try using any of the public services. Then and only then might I begin to have a shred of sympathy for your viewpoint on this.

[/quote]

Thank you Cooperlola for your kind comments! (NOT!)

In fact,  I was a little modest about my French, even though I am not fluent  -many misguidedly think they are!  

But,  I did French at university, have taught it to GCSE students, and get by - somehow.   I can chat to my neighbours in French,  but I don't know enough colloquial or slang expressions.  How many here think they are fluent, without this knowledge, apart from needing knowledge of French grammar ? 

I have yet to have to see a French doctor,   but could probably cope, so don't worry I will not ask for your help on here! 

Lately,  I have managed planning permissions  and the usual official stuff in French. I have also employed French artisans and could talk to them.  Some building terms I only know the French words !  

And,  I don't live in France, nor would I expect the French tax payer to subsidise me if I couldn't cope!

But,  I am allowed an opinion on how MY taxes are spent in the UK and this is what my  post was about. 

Tegwini

  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes Tegwini, you are allowed an opinion as am I, so for what its worth my opinion is that money spent on making medical services available to immigrants, (for which they have often  paid or are paying in the form of NI and Tax ) is money well spent.

 If we don't do this we could end up paying a much bigger tab. A baby disabled or worse because its mother wasn't fluent, a mother or father dead because they couldn't communicate.......we're a better country than that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  I don't believe its a luxury Derek, take the example of a young mother giving birth, if its difficult to make an appointment early in her pregnancy, avoidable and treatable conditions may be missed with the NHS left picking up a far bigger bill for a sick or disabled child or mother. The same goes for many other things - cancers etc.....

In addition, just like a lot of other people, funds might not stretch to a translator. And how much is this facility that Tegwini so resents compared to the tax, NI, spending power etc that they add ? Immigrants add to our economy, in many cases we want and need them, or have done so in the recent past

If you really want to encourage the sort of 'them and us' attitude that could fuel organisations like Muslims for UK, then go right ahead, but look at the potential cost, financial and humanitarian of the consequences.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone married to a foreigner I remain eternally grateful to the NHS when dealing with a serious condition my wife developed when we lived in the UK.

She has 2 degrees, English from Brest, and Spanish from Rennes, taught English in France, French in the UK, but there is no way she could have coped with the vocab, when talking to a doctor, which an English speaker would take for granted. She would have died, but for the translation services offered. Maybe the skyhigh French hospital dead rates would be helped by a similar service[I]

Tegwini, you may wish to start praying that you never need any for of public services when you are in France, you are in for the surprise of your life, and a very large dose of shattered illusions. Hopefully, you'll never find out for yourself what Cooperlola is talking about. Most of the services you take for granted, but so decry, simply don't exist here. Watch the French TV news, and read the papers, don't let some lazy DM/BBC journalist spoonfeed you myths about France.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="NickP"][quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="Russethouse"]

Isn't that a little simplistic ?[/quote]Only a little R/H?

Well,  Tegwini, if you're ever ill or have medical problems when you're over here, just don't come on here asking for the nearest English speaking medic.  Get your French up to totally fluent standard before you set foot over here and try using any of the public services. Then and only then might I begin to have a shred of sympathy for your viewpoint on this.

[/quote]

I think you are being a little harsh Coops, nobody asks to have an accident or be taken ill, also I didn't realise that when I go on holiday it was obligatory to be fluent in the local language, just in case. My wife had the misfortune to developed peritonitis when  we first arrived  in France and our language skills were very poor. The help treatment and assistance we received were absolutely first class,  nobody worried about our lack of French, in fact they went out of their way to help us

[/quote]Nick, my remarks were aimed at Tegwini whose first post seemed to me to indicate that she feels that unless you can speak the language of the country in which you are ill, you should not be entitled to treatment.  It is not a view to which I subscribe.  IMHO, in fact,  I believe that in this day and age healthcare should be a basic human right for all, whatever language you happen so speak and whatever country you are in - that should be our long term goal - not less healthcare, but more, and universal at that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="velcorin"]

As someone married to a foreigner I remain eternally grateful to the NHS when dealing with a serious condition my wife developed when we lived in the UK.

She has 2 degrees, English from Brest, and Spanish from Rennes, taught English in France, French in the UK, but there is no way she could have coped with the vocab, when talking to a doctor, which an English speaker would take for granted. She would have died, but for the translation services offered. Maybe the skyhigh French hospital dead rates would be helped by a similar service[I]

Tegwini, you may wish to start praying that you never need any for of public services when you are in France, you are in for the surprise of your life, and a very large dose of shattered illusions. Hopefully, you'll never find out for yourself what Cooperlola is talking about. Most of the services you take for granted, but so decry, simply don't exist here. Watch the French TV news, and read the papers, don't let some lazy DM/BBC journalist spoonfeed you myths about France.

 

[/quote]

I'm thinking "velcorin" I'd be more afraid of the anti French propaganda that is emanating from you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 years married to a "realistic" Frenchwoman, with a very large family, and 6 years of living in Paris, in 2 spells, makes me "realistic", rather than anti-French[:D] (Oh, and a residence secondaire in Creuse, just to show I'm just like other Brits[:D]).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="NickP"][quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="Russethouse"]

Isn't that a little simplistic ?[/quote]Only a little R/H?

Well,  Tegwini, if you're ever ill or have medical problems when you're over here, just don't come on here asking for the nearest English speaking medic.  Get your French up to totally fluent standard before you set foot over here and try using any of the public services. Then and only then might I begin to have a shred of sympathy for your viewpoint on this.

[/quote]

I think you are being a little harsh Coops, nobody asks to have an accident or be taken ill, also I didn't realise that when I go on holiday it was obligatory to be fluent in the local language, just in case. My wife had the misfortune to developed peritonitis when  we first arrived  in France and our language skills were very poor. The help treatment and assistance we received were absolutely first class,  nobody worried about our lack of French, in fact they went out of their way to help us

[/quote]Nick, my remarks were aimed at Tegwini whose first post seemed to me to indicate that she feels that unless you can speak the language of the country in which you are ill, you should not be entitled to treatment.  It is not a view to which I subscribe.  IMHO, in fact,  I believe that in this day and age healthcare should be a basic human right for all, whatever language you happen so speak and whatever

country you are in - that should be our long term goal - not less healthcare, but more, and universal at that.

[/quote]

My post was concerned with the extra translation costs   - NOT treatment. Do read it again - no mention was made of withholding care to anyone.  

But,the NHS can barely cope at present, they still have waiting lists, and are short of so much.

 

But,

to cope with the costs of  17 languages ?   I wonder if  any 'free'

(for many) health service offers this anywhere else ?  The French

clearly don't!

Tegwini

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Nick, my remarks were aimed at Tegwini whose first post seemed to me to indicate that she feels that unless you can speak the language of the country in which you are ill, you should not be entitled to treatment.  It is not a view to which I subscribe.  IMHO, in fact,  I believe that in this day and age healthcare should be a basic human right for all, whatever language you happen so speak and whatever country you are in - that should be our long term goal - not less healthcare, but more, and universal at that.

 

Fair enough Coops, but I didn't think thats what she meant. All of us; I hope, wants health care to be available to everybody. But I must agree with Tegwini about the translator situation. A couple of years ago I was working in Ealing and all the notice's in and around the Town hall were displayed in a dozen languages, this is an enormous cost to the local rates payers. Here in France; when we go to pay our local rates or water bills etc., as you know, all the forms are in French. Nobody has a problem with us being English, but they expect us to manage in French, having said that they are always very helpful. The only exception of course is in Paris, where they will criticise your accent. Still we are lucky enough to be in the Loir et Cher.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...