Conspiracy Theories

[Bugsy]

I like conspiracy theories but what about this one

True ?

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[Pierre ZFP]

This story seems to be from 2007.  Anything further on this?  Does it have anything to do with Venables being banged up again this week  for breaching parole conditions?

[Cat]

I assume you have read this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/mar/03/james-bulger-killer-venables-prison

[Bugsy]

Well, if he was shipped to Australia I would presume a return to the UK would be in breach of his release conditions.

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[Quillan]

I think people are reading to much in to the 'Worldwide Injunction'. They were banned from being in or near Liverpool and thats about it. I can't see them being relocated outside of the UK as that would make it difficult to keep tabs on them and anyway who would want them. No, sorry I believe both were/are somewhere in the UK under new identities. I think if we were allowed to see what the terms of their parole are it would say they can't have a passport let alone leave the UK.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

It was always my understanding the evil little scumbags were given new identities and lives and sent to Australia.

[Pierre ZFP]

Ah but that's what 'they' wanted you to think

 

[KathyF]

I really do doubt whether they could or would have been relocated abroad. How could they have been monitored in those circumstances?  Australia stopped being the dumping-ground for British criminals a very long time ago.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

So why don't we know where they are like we do most other high profile scumbag killers like that?

[Chancer]

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]So why don't we know where they are like we do most other high profile scumbag killers like that?[/quote]

On 8 January 2001, the High Court of England guaranteed both Venables and Thompson lifelong anonymity plus an unprecedented open-ended injunction barring any publicity about them. Each of these young men were released in June 2001 when they were 18.

The anonymity guarantee and publication ban were set in place by Dame Elizabeth Butler-Sloss, president of the High Court’s Family Division. She is convinced the pair would be genuinely at risk if their identities and locations were disclosed, hence her ruling. “Although the crime of these two young men was especially heinous, they have the right of all citizens to the protection of the law.” She said people other than James Bulger’s family “continue to feel such hatred and revulsion at the shocking crime and a desire for revenge that some at least of them might well engage in vigilante or revenge attacks.” She may well be right, especially in light of threats received.

Dame Butler-Sloss banned the media from publishing any information leading to the identification or disclosure of whereabouts of Venables or Thompson, including photographs and descriptions of their appearance. She also banned, for 12 months, publication of information about their eight-year stay in local authority secure units. Even after that, confidential information relating to their treatment and therapy cannot be published.

[Clarkkent]

I suppose that this will result in me receiving some flack, but I find the constant villification of Thompson and Venables rather distasteful. I do not defend them or what they have done but I think that it reflects rather poorly on us that we should continue to demonise them.

What they did was unspeakable, vile, horrible - but they were only 10 years old. Had they have lived in France they would not even be considered criminally responsible until they were 17.

What they did was unspeakable, vile, horrible - but they were children. Do any of you know any 10 year old children? Do you consider that your 10 year old children or grandchildren should be considered to be adults? Do you join in the disgust and dismay that 10 year olds in India or Pakistan should be working in sweatshops so that you can enjoy cheap goods?

It was right that they were punished, but it was also the obligation of the rest of us to ensure that they should be given the chance to grow into rehabilitated adults. Unfortunately for them, the gutter press saw their demonisation as an opportunity to make profits and continues to do so.

There have been plenty of other, horrific, murders, but their perpetrators will eventually be forgotten and ignored because they were adults. Thompson and Venables were children and so our hatred of them becomes permanent and permanently intense.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]It was always my understanding the evil little scumbags were given new identities and lives and sent to Australia.[/quote]

I would really like to know where this 'understanding' comes from. Neither the article that started this thread, which is dubious at best, nor anyone else can provide any evidence that they went outside the UK which like others I can't see happening for many reasons. I am sure that there would have been no problem for instance in the press saying he has been extradited from X, Y or Z for breaking the terms of this parole. Of course we will know eventually because in one months time his case will be heard by the parole board and if found guilty it will be in the public domain.

What may confuse matters is that there is an Worldwide Injunction in force put there in June 2007 when a none UK country wanted to publish photo's of both the boys. After footage of Bulger being abducted were shown as part of an Australian TV series in 2009 the Australian government were very quick to deny that the boys did not and had not lived in Australia (source - Sunrise News, Seven Network 24th August 2009).

Bulgers mother actually spotted Thomson in 2004 and was "paralysed with hatred" and was unable to confront him.

[quote user="Clarkkent"]

I suppose that this will result in me receiving some flack, but I find the constant vilification of Thompson and Venables rather distasteful. I do not defend them or what they have done but I think that it reflects rather poorly on us that we should continue to demonise them.

[/quote]

I find myself in agreement with you. As terrible a this case was and what was done to Bulger we have to look beyond that for the answer as to why these young boys, for that is what they were at the time, committed such a horrible crime. As the shadow Home Secretary at the time said "We hear of crimes so horrific they provoke anger and disbelief in equal proportions … These are the ugly manifestations of a society that is becoming unworthy of that name.". There has been a lot of controversy after the case on its legality, the legality  of the sentence etc but very little investigation, in fact none, has been carried out in to the parents of the two boys and how they and society failed them so miserably. In short nothing has been learnt.

 

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Yes, because after all, boys will be boys and they had no idea what they were doing was wrong...

[Quillan]

And who teaches children the difference between right and wrong, the parents and society. I know where you are coming from and I understand your point and, just like my answer, its not that simple. I guess basically both of us could write pages and pages on this and still be wrong at the end.

[Russethouse]

 Sadly I think Denise Fergus takes evey opportunity to stir the pot, and one can understand her view.

[Bugsy]

G, did you get my PM regarding R ?

[cooperlola]

Thank you, Clarkkent, for putting it so well.  However, because one of them has broken the conditions of his release (in what way we do not know and may never), it will sadly now just add fuel to the - to my mind completely odious - idea that they should have been prosecuted as adults. 

[Gardengirl]

They were young children; what they did was horrific. Some children can be terrible despite being children. I've worked with children who did extremely vicious things to other children, with very little happening to them afterwards to help them to see that some things are just plain wrong. It was possible to see this continuing as they grew up; some I've heard about as the years passed, who repeatedly committed very violent acts, with at least one killing. Mostly I 've known that the parents and grandparents are either violent or inadequate or both.

I used to think that all parents wanted the best for their children, but I learned that isn't necessarily so; some just want them out of the way, not to bother them. These were the sort of children we ran breakfast clubs for, whose only meal otherwise would be their free school lunch; who we 'loaned' clothes to each day, as if they went home in them they knew they wouldn't see them again - they'd be sold. I grew to wish that children could be removed more quickly from their parents, as damage done early to a child isn't easily put right. Often many people know that things aren't right in a family, but it's become wrong somehow to become involved, even to the extent of ringing social services or the NSPCC (in UK). And of course that doesn't always bring answers to problems.

The news about Jon Venables has brought back to me all the feelings I had all those years ago, the discussions in the staffroom about children we were concerned about, discussions about whether the care those two young boys would receive would in any way enable them to fit into society in the future. There never are easy answers..

 

[Chancer]

[quote user="Bugsy"]G, did you get my PM regarding R ?
[/quote]

Yes, just got in and seen it.

G??

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Chancer"]

[quote user="Bugsy"]G, did you get my PM regarding R ?

[/quote]

Yes, just got in and seen it.

G??

[/quote]

No you haven't [:D]

Different subject.

It was to 'G' in answer to a question.

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