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No Tax Paid Yet


Grecian
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As it is now 'that time of year' I have just realized that we have not paid an installment of our 2019 income tax, usually we receive the first bill in February. I have looked at our online account and no tax payment demand is showing. I realized that tax is now being taken at source for the French, and to be honest I am not quite sure as to what happens about us étrangers, I thought things were to be unchanged for us, due to the source of our income. Have I not done something that I should have and registered something with the nice tax man?

Any help would be gratefully received before the gendarmes come and kick the door down.

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The last entry on the last page of your tax assessment for last year should indicate what they expect you to pay this year and the frequency of payments.

If you completed your tax online last year you will have given them details of your bank account so it should already be disappearing from your bank account monthly, if they assessed you need to pay tax this year.

I'm not sure what would happen if you did it all on paper but I would have thought those last lines on the printed assessment would be similar.
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How do they know which country's banks a pension is paid into? I've never told the French tax office?

My monthly prélèvement this year is based on the tax for my total income as declared last year which they assume will be nearly the same this year. I just expect there to be an adjustment at some point when the amounts (converted into euro) are known. In past years they have done the similar estimating for the quarterly prélèvement; I had to make adjustments one year when I cashed in a life insurance and they assumed it was annual revenue.

Isn't there an obligation to ensure you pay the appropriate prélèvements and possible fines if you deviate too much?
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As I understand it-there is no tax paid this year on "non exceptional income" -for pensioners that means your normal pensions only on exceptional payments-( monies not paid every year-redundancy payments things like that) It was explained in a notice at the start of filling in online tax form. Any prelevements are for NEXT years tax. I'm sure there will be someone who understands it better but that's how I've read it. This is an English translation of the impots page about année blanche.

https://www.economie.gouv.fr/prelevement-a-la-source/2018-annee-de-transition
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Regular 2018 income is not going to be taxed. Exceptional income will be taxed.

The prélèvements being taken now are those for your expected 2019 tax (not NEXT years tax) and are based on your tax bill for 2017 (as they don't have any better figure to work with). If you think it is going to be too inaccurate, you can change it online. From now on income tax will be taken in advance for the current year with differences sorted out later.

To avoid tax payments for both 2018 and 2019 in one calendar year, the French government will apply a tax credit on the 2018 regular income which will remove any income tax on the 2018 regular income. The 2018 income tax return still needs to be completed in 2019 to determine the income tax on all the income. Then the credit will be applied.
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Thank you all for your replies.

From all the information provided I now have a clearer understanding as to why no tax has been taken, I think!

Firstly, the tax office has our bank details, even when declaring on paper, I paid the bills online. I have  looked at last years final tax bill, and as pomme pointed out it states the 'taux pour le foyer' which is showing 0% (must learn to read everything that comes from the tax man in future)! The reason for no French income tax being due, is because the UK tax credit from last year wiped out any French income tax due.

This still throws up one query, even though no income tax is due in advance, why has no social charges been taken in advance as in previous years? Although I must admit if the tax man is happy with the situation then so am I.

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Thanks for that mint. I knew that income tax and social charges had been lumped together, and were payable in advance, depending on the payment plan that had been selected. So I really do not know why they have not taken the social charge element of this years tax/social charges in advance like everybody else seems to have had.

It definately states votre taux personnalisé est actuellement de 0.0% on our online account. I really do not know what on earth is going on, looks like an e-mail to the tax office is in order.

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Grecian, I know what all my French friends would say to you at this point.  If they want your money, they will ask for it.  Until then you pay nothing and you do not ask questions and make advances to them.....voilà, c'est tout.

Took me a long time to get used to, never mind adopt, such a cavalier attitude but it does get easier with practice[:P]

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I must be the only one who wants to pay tax . I've declared income for 2018 and I know we should pay tax (as income above the threshold), however, it's saying 0, no tax due.

Last year we claimed for our daughter at Uni so paid 0 but now she's independant and I haven't included her on the form and it's still saying 0.

I'd rather pay as we go than end up with a big bill later.
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I usually consider myself to be on the ball with these things, but I must say on the issue of tax this year I'm a bit foggy. Maybe someone in the know can enlighten me?

In the case of Mrs DD and I, as many others, we have been paying monthly prélèvements since January. The thing is, the taux indicated on last year's Avis d'Impôt equated to just over half our annual tax bill for 2018 (based on 2017 income) after deduction of the rebate under dual tax agreements for our regular UK property income. Last years tax wasn't different significantly from previous years and there were no exceptional elements. I've worked out that after taking into account our prélèvements over the full year (January to December), we will have paid approx 3,000 euros less than our tax bill for 2019 on 2018 income would have worked out. At the moment, I've budgeted for having to pay this shortfall in September of this year, as has been the case with any corrective payments in the past.

From what I've been reading though, I'm unclear as to whether or not this will happen. If, as seems the case, these prélèvements ultimately will relate to 2019 tax based on 2019 income, will the extra tax based on 2018 income simply be written off? Can't quite seem to find an answer in simple terms......
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Daft Doctor wrote : From what I've been reading though, I'm unclear as to whether or not this will happen. If, as seems the case, these prélèvements ultimately will relate to 2019 tax based on 2019 income, will the extra tax based on 2018 income simply be written off? Can't quite seem to find an answer in simple terms......

I am assuming the worst because : our income comes from the UK so we can never simulate our tax bill on the impots site because the tax software cannot cope with income received from outside the French system.

I also have my fingers crossed that Parsnips will wade in with his informed knowledge and give us his view of what might happen in our cases.
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I've just had another look at last year's avis d'impots and to calculate the amount of the monthly prélèvements for 2019, they seem to have applied a 14.4% composite tax rate, but only to my NHS pension income (which is wholly taxed in France). Our UK property income has been excluded from the calculation. Could it be that the impots are starting to ignore any income which is taxed elsewhere and dealt with under a dual tax treaty, or is it simply that so called 'un-earned income' such as that from property or investements falls outside the PAYE scheme and will be billed separately in September. As you say Sue56, let's hope someone fully in the know such as parsnips will pick up the thread.....
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[quote user="suein56"]Daft Doctor wrote : From what I've been reading though, I'm unclear as to whether or not this will happen. If, as seems the case, these prélèvements ultimately will relate to 2019 tax based on 2019 income, will the extra tax based on 2018 income simply be written off? Can't quite seem to find an answer in simple terms......

I am assuming the worst because : our income comes from the UK so we can never simulate our tax bill on the impots site because the tax software cannot cope with income received from outside the French system.

I also have my fingers crossed that Parsnips will wade in with his informed knowledge and give us his view of what might happen in our cases.[/quote]

Could you kindly direct me to the calculation part of the tax please, as although OH works overseas he is paid in euros so I'm hoping it will give us an idea of how much to put by for next year. Thanks Sue
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Regular 2018 income is not going to be taxed. Exceptional income will be taxed.

The prélèvements being taken now are those for your expected 2019 tax and are based on your tax bill for 2017 (as they don't have any better figure to work with). If you think it is going to be too inaccurate, you can change it online. From now on income tax will be taken in advance for the current year with differences sorted out later.

To avoid tax payments for both 2018 and 2019 in one calendar year, the French government will apply a tax credit on the 2018 regular income which will remove any income tax on the 2018 regular income. The 2018 income tax return still needs to be completed in 2019 to determine the income tax on all the regular and extraordinary income. Then the credit for the regular income will be applied but there will be a tax charge for anything over and above the regular income (which will be billed later this year).

So for regular income (e.g. pensions), even if from the UK, will have been declared in previous years and, as I understand it, the prélèvements should be based on those.
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Mogs wrote : Could you kindly direct me to the calculation part of the tax please, as although OH works overseas he is paid in euros so I'm hoping it will give us an idea of how much to put by for next year. Thanks Sue

https://www3.impots.gouv.fr/simulateur/calcul_impot/2019/simplifie/index.htm

Sorry, you will have to copy and paste as I use Chrome and cannot make a link live
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Thanks Pomme, that would seem entirely logical, though it'll be interesting to see how they apply the barème to the calculation for this year. If they calculate the notional tax due on all the income, how will they calculate the rebate due for 2018 regular income. Will it be as with the rebate under the DTT, i.e. a proportion of the entire bill based on the ratio of UK taxed to total assessed income, or will they give the rebate as a slice off at the highest rate(s). Neither way is accurate really, but one is financially better than the other for the taxpayer......
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Thinking more about it, our income consists solely of 'regular income' (NHS pension), and income taxed under the DTT (UK property income). The logic of what is intended by the treatment of 2018 income would suggest that our additional tax bill over the prélèvements should be nil, since a rebate should be applied for both those categories of our assessed income. I bet that doesn't happen.........
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DD-  sorry to interupt (still struggling with this tax idea...) -

but you wrote -

'......applied a 14.4% composite tax rate, but only to my NHS pension income (which is wholly taxed in France).'

Uhhmmm - can I just whisper - do you really mean your NHS pension is 'taxed' in France - or just 'taken into account' - because NHS pensions, like local government, shouldn't actually be taxed in France, should they ?

Or have I got myself completely mixed up ?

Chessie

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