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Death and bereavement


Kitty
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Sorry Cathy - link does not work. Having lost both parents last year - would love to read it.

PS - just signed in again, and linked worked. Thanks if you did anything. Beautifully written- and inspiring. My parents were 94 and 96 - so 2 very good innings! But I do miss them and always will - but as he says, in a 'positive' way. Thank you for this.

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And I 58 - so would not dare complain. Dad was as fit as a fiddle to 96- but mum, an amazing woman, way ahead of time - lingered for more than 10 years very much against her will. No guilt, no regrets, really - but I wish I had been here (I live in UK then) with her to fight against over-treatment and 'care' (feeding her against her wish and stuffing her with antibiotics every time she had a slight cold which prolonged her miserable life.  Got here too late.

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Frankly I'm surprised Matthew Paris took so long to reach those conclusions - my father died in 1996, do I remember him everyday? Usually

Do I curse him when his DIY bodges make work  ? Yes

Am I pleased when his tool kit means we can fix the problem ? Of course

Now my mother is our responsibility do I wonder why he worked until he was 76 and three weeks before he died  ? Not at all ! [;-)]

 

 

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He is a pretty lucky guy then, I'm younger than him and have lost my father, a much loved aunt and uncle( together in a road crash, age 80 ), my mother in law, father in law and brother in law, my own brother and  my sister in law, my godfather ( acousin) and another cousin, and all grandparents (naturally)

 Before I was born my mother had a daughter that died and she remains a constant in our lives despite never knowing her.

I hope MP finds it a little easier next time.

 

 

 

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Why are you all so afraid of the words "died", "death" etc? Or is this just another example of creeping Americanisms as in the ridiculous, shallow-sounding phrase "I'm sorry for your loss"?

John - who really was announced as lost for an hour or so at a Marks Tey point-to-point in the mid-fifties

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 To the survivor it is a loss, so I don't find that 'shallow' as you say, but I think a lot of people believe that death is the worst thing that could possibly happen but it isn't always, deaths are different and my feeling is that we grieve differently depending on the death.

 

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I am surprised that people believe that death is the worst case, perhaps they have not spent enough time around the dying. For me the word "loss" implies a possibility of finding but perhaps that is an age thing.

Euphemisms just allow the user to hide from reality or is it that calling a spade a spade is somehow not PC ?

After the funeral of my grandfather I was upset and my father's words (approx) were "there's nothing you can do for him now, he's in the ground so worry about those of us who are still here" - maybe it's his fault that I am as I am ?

John

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[quote user="Iceni"]

I am surprised that people believe that death is the worst case,[/quote]

If death is not the worst case, what is?

I've had too much bereavement, starting from when I was 16 years old.  You don't get over it.  You just learn to live with it.

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If death is not the worst case, what is?

Living when you don't want because you are in pain or have lost what you consider to have been your meaningful life.  I know my mother feels she is past her sell by date and would like to go to sleep and not wake up....sad but true.

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[quote user="Iceni"]

Euphemisms just allow the user to hide from reality or is it that calling a spade a spade is somehow not PC ?

John

[/quote]

It's not about hiding, John.  Sometimes the pain is so great that we devise means of lessening it.  So, if someone finds it more comforting to use the words "loss" or "pass away", what does it matter?  I doubt that they say these words thinking PC or non PC.  They say them because perhaps they cannot bear the finality that is death.

Don't know about you but I do not believe that there is any life after death and I certainly never expect to meet again the people in my life who have died and gone forever from me.

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The emotional pain after death of a partner is what convinces me that we have such things as soul mates, even if we don't always recognise what we have at the time, ironic now sometimes to watch a couple performing an argument rather like a ballet, to and fro, yet bickering unaware of the value of their relationship strengths. For myself I am still learning to live after the death of a partner and acutely aware that I must make the most of enjoying the opportunity to continue to live which has been denied to others, they would wish to have the opportunity I know. 

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

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[quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="Iceni"]

Euphemisms just allow the user to hide from reality or is it that calling a spade a spade is somehow not PC ?

John

[/quote]

It's not about hiding, John.  Sometimes the pain is so great that we devise means of lessening it.  So, if someone finds it more comforting to use the words "loss" or "pass away", what does it matter?  I doubt that they say these words thinking PC or non PC.  They say them because perhaps they cannot bear the finality that is death.

Don't know about you but I do not believe that there is any life after death and I certainly never expect to meet again the people in my life who have died and gone forever from me.

[/quote]

Neither do I, but I believe that what we do in life lives on in others, for instance, how often do I 'hear' my aunt or my father when some situation arises ?  What they'd do or say .....

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We came to france to try to 'heal' ourselves from so much grief, first we lost a grandson at 6 months old to cot death, then shortly after that, my mum, she got up to make a sandwich, collapsed, and died, then one year later my dad followed her, then 2 years after him, our daughter died of cancer, I now know that you can't run away  from grief, we are going back to the Uk, so I can be where they are, I don't believe in the after life either, so sitting by their graves is something I need to do.

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[quote user="Belle"]so sitting by their graves is something I need to do. [/quote]

I find that they are not at their graves.  So, when I can, I go to their favourite places.

And it is true, RH, you can hear them.  And in your dreams, you can see them and speak to them as if they are alive.

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[quote user="Cathy"] I find that they are not at their graves.  And it is true, RH, you can hear them.  And in your dreams, you can see them and speak to them as if they are alive. [/quote]

If they are anywhere, they are most certainly with you, in your head, wherever you may be, reminding you of their memory, and reminding you of how precious those moments were, can never be recovered, and that you should make sure that your kith and kin have memories of happy times with you; most definitely not at their grave, where they most certainly would rather not be.

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Lots of us have been exposed to death and we all deal with it differently.

I come from the Rhondda Valley in South Wales and in an earlier life was a Police Officer before I realised it was not for me. One day sudden death the PS sent me to deal with it. An ex-miner had died then a PM as a young PC of 18 go to see as was the case in those days the PM. Told by the PS to take Rowntrees pastilles and I think that is sufficient for today.

Following week my Father died of what we called 'dust' and had to have a PM. The good folk of those days gave us £10 to bury him and the following week withdrew our concessionary coal for there was one less person in the house. Here this was against seeing a PM less than a week before.

Then we had Aberfan and enough said.

I then doubted my faith but have hopefully re-found it.
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The effects of a death are so different for people of different ages and closeness - eg the death of a child must be absolutely devastating, also a close husband or wife.

But an elderly person who has had a full life, or someone who has had years of sufferring, death is more of a transition, or even a blessing. That's how I see it anyway.

For those left behind the worst thing must be to regret not having been close in the last days, you can't get them back.

So while our loved ones are here, make the most of them and show them we love them.

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 I agree Pat, my mother has never really come to terms with the death of my sister in 1949, over 60 years ago, despite the fact my sisters condition would have meant that she would have anyway died many years ago, and my parents couldn't have coped with other children.

Also the manner of death has a bearing: my Aunt and Uncle died in a car crash and I well remember the 'football in the stomach ' feeling that gave, also one of my my daughters close friends lost her father when he was just 46. I remember I had been out and came home to see my daughter crying, stood in the window with my husband stood behind her - my father had cancer at that time and I sat in the car for a few moments preparing myself for the news that he'd died. When they told me what had happened I just couldn't believe it, no one could -   the poor chap got up in the middle of the night to get a Rennies, thinking he had indegestion, his young son saw him sat in the kitchen, his head rested in his hand but didn't realise he had died....

Other people have been in ill health or pain and had a good life and although we miss them, it's different.

My mother hopes she'll go to sleep and not wake up, and frankly so do I, her life is a misery and for someone like her who is frustrated by her lack of health, its hell.....no amount of care can make up for her lack of independance or reliance on carers.....it would be a release

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