Sums it up nicely really; this prat is not needed .....

[woolybanana]

....in Britain

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8642404.stm

But why the heck should they apologize?

[Chancer]

Hey Wooly, you of all people should remember what being young was like.

I bet you have said far worse in jest or even with a straight face, luckily it wasnt minuted.

Someone really out to run with with the Papal condoms idea though, big corporations pay fortunes for those sorts of ideas, I bet this brainstorming session took place at a nice posh hotel ore even in a sunnier clime.

[Quillan]

Love it Wolly. Benidict Condoms, I mean you have to laugh.

[Will]

The foreign office and the diplomatic service should be virtually synonymous.

Something like this document which may give rise to a few puerile giggles cannot do anything other than give offence - the diametric opposite of diplomacy.

I would agree that the prats who made these stupid so-called 'jokes' are not needed, but neither is whatever manager or senior civil servant who allowed them to be committed to writing, or didn't order their immediate destruction.

I personally have little time for the Roman faith under the present Pope, and couldn't defend his stance on many issues. But something like this which can only offend a large number of people is not just ill-judged, it's a diplomatic disaster.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Quillan"]Love it Wolly. Benidict Condoms[/quote]What else, Holy Condoms perhaps ?

How about a little competition for the best name ?

[Benjamin]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

....in Britain

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8642404.stm

But why the heck should they apologize?

[/quote]

Who are you referring to?   [6]

  

[Quillan]

I see Wills point but I rather suspect it was a couple of 'lads' having a laugh and somebody saw it and thought it was for real then told the press. Mind you these are the people of the future who will become responsible for the running of the UK, it does not bode well.

[NormanH]

I assumed that WB was talking about the Pope.

[Benjamin]

So did I Norman.   [:D]

So that's you and me with the minority opinion.

[Chancer]

These two lads should be fast-tracked through the church so that one of them can take over from the Pope, or at the very least they should be given their own political party.

As for not boding well for the future, am I really the only person on this forum that is not in denial about having once been young and shock horror - immature to boot? Its perfectly normal to not be precoce you know, unless of course your name is William Hague [:P]

I would prefer future politicians to at least have some memory of what it feels like to be young.

Someone like Woolybanana in fact [:)]

[NormanH]

[quote user="Benjamin"]So did I Norman.   [:D]

So that's you and me with the minority opinion.

[/quote]

and we agree !  [:D]

[Gluestick]

Now, just conject the resulting furore, if these public servants had developed a discussion paper, preparatory to a leading Mullah from Islam on a state visit to Britain, suggesting say he opened a new pork butchers; a distillery; and attended a memorial service for British service personnel fallen in Iraq and Afghanistan...................

[6]

Generating spoof documents has always been an engaging activity to counter boredom for most of us with a sense of humour and fun: I can well remember creating a spoof file which was handed to a rating clerk for a cargo shipped from Amsterdam to UK: for ten crates of Dehydrated Water.......

And the perpetrators watching the guy as he searched furiously through the Conference references to decided the freight category, for fifteen minutes or so!

I did like the use of the word "Brainstorm": what brains?

If civil servants have such levels of spare time, then it's no wonder, perhaps, the country's budget is in such deficit.

[Quillan]

I know Woolly was talking about the Pope but then whats so say about him, his church and his office that has not been said before. I think any visit by any religious leader to any country should be paid for by the church he/she represents and not by the country they are visiting. I also think that if they are christian then they should pay more attention to 'the book' they 'punt around' like flogging all their wealth and giving it to the poor and starving and God knows there are so many of the latter. But then I have more chance of finding rocking horse manure outside my front door than that ever happening. As I have said so many times before it's not God I have a problem with, just religion.

[woolybanana]

Yes, I was referring to the Pope; the guys that wrote the memo should be promoted. In the light of the current controversy surrounding the Vatican, it does not seem appropriate for its head of state to be visiting foreign countries. I have always had my doubts about chaps who wear pink lace, even though it is of the very best quality. Given his apparent ambivalence in the pedo. debate, perhaps he should keep within his walls until the problem is solved.

It is to be expected that there will be suitable protests during his visit as people exercise their right to voice their feelings. OOOOOOPPPPSSSSSS, silly me, Blair bug*ered that one too. Even worse, double OOOOOOOPPPPSSSSSSS, the 'b' word might be too close to home in the current situation, so shall we say circumscribed. No, damm (sic) it, that might offend the Jewish lobby. Well, what is there left to say?

Off to the garden for a little light hoeing ----AAAAgggggggg, that is ambiguous too. OK, lets see is we can find one in Will's realm? How about a cruise down the stream and then tieing up to a buoy for lunch ----- Ahhhhhhhhh, I give up, I am speechlesssss.

[Etoile]

Certain people of little intelligence on this forum are rather missing the point here. The fact is that senior civil servants have offended a church leader who has been invited by our government to visit this country. As expected the government has done little about it - the offending person simply being relocated to another job. It has nothing to do with ones religious views or lack of them. The are as many non-believers appalled by this as there are christians. If the slur had been made against a leader from any other faith our politicians would now be lining up to grovel and apologise.

[mint]

Etoile, I agree with you.

And not only is he a religious leader, he also happens to be a Head of State, the Vatican State.

Public protests is one thing but to have these highly-paid public servants having a joke or whatever it is they think they are doing is beyond the pale.

A sacking offence, IMHO......

[woolybanana]

Great Bobo in a bucket Etoile, whoever is offended by this? It was an internal memo but a couple of relatively junior officials and for internal consumption only. One rather suspects that many people of the Catholic faith may also be embarrassed by his visit, behaviour and apparent views. These things circulate all the time and are healthy as they are a safety valve. 

And please remember that the UK is not a Catholic country and that the visit by the ecclesiastical Pinochet is not necessarily welcome. Nor is he a true head of state.

And the politicians do seem to be lining up to grovel and apologize to this discredited prelate, unfortunately.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Etoile"]Certain people of little intelligence on this forum are rather missing the point here. The fact is that senior civil servants have offended a church leader who has been invited by our government to visit this country. As expected the government has done little about it - the offending person simply being relocated to another job. It has nothing to do with ones religious views or lack of them. The are as many non-believers appalled by this as there are christians. If the slur had been made against a leader from any other faith our politicians would now be lining up to grovel and apologise.[/quote]

What appalls me is the lack of contrition by the Catholic church as for 'the offending person simply being relocated to another job' you are joking aren't you ? Beyond ironic, what has the Catholic church done to protect 'suspects' over the years ?

My own feeling is that when the Catholic church sincerely apologises and what is more, visibly puts its house in order it will then regain the respect that would warrant a sincere apology, at the moments its reputation, if not in tatters is very badly dented, not helped by the present Pope who seems to think that a few platitudes will suffice .

 

[Quillan]

I personally don't care who he is I just don't think a person who has actively tried to cover up illegal acts should have £20M worth of UK tax payers money spent on him. Personally I am with Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens on this and hope they get the result they want and we have the bloke arrested and charged under the 'crimes against humanity' act. By the way the United Nations do not recognise him as head of state, in fact he is placed in the same category as Augusto Pinochet and therefor not covered by diplomatic immunity.

Added.

Well said RH, this is a man whose first instinct when his priests are caught with their pants down is to cover up the scandal and damn the young victims to silence, what sort of church does that in this day and age?

[Polly]

[quote user="Etoile"]Certain people of little intelligence on this forum are rather missing the point here. The fact is that senior civil servants have offended a church leader who has been invited by our government to visit this country. As expected the government has done little about it - the offending person simply being relocated to another job. It has nothing to do with ones religious views or lack of them. The are as many non-believers appalled by this as there are christians. If the slur had been made against a leader from any other faith our politicians would now be lining up to grovel and apologise.[/quote]

'Our' government? 'This' country? You say you're in the Charente!

[mint]

RH, if you think this one's bad, what do you make of the previous incumbent megalomaniac?

I still don't think these highly paid public servants deserve to be in the job they are in.  Schoolboy pranks?  Except that these are NOT schoolboys and cannot be trusted to even behave in a sensible manner.

After all, regardless of what private opinions of the Pope they hold, their jobs require that they exercise discretion.

 

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Etoile"] If the slur had been made against a leader from any other faith our politicians would now be lining up to grovel and apologise.[/quote]

For those up to date with the news, they indeed are: and the FCO is issuing grovelling apologies: quite rightly too.

As Sweets points out, whether we like him or hate him, The prelate is indeed, apart from his role as The Vicar of Christ in the Holy See, concurrently, a head of state.

When heads of state visit any other state, then the host country suffers various costs as a result.

Perhaps the adverse commentators on this thread might like to review the

Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations

http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf

Quote"

The Holy See is represented at international governmental organizations including the United Nations (UN) headquarters in New York, U.S.A.; UN Offices and Specialized Institutions, Geneva, Switzerland; International Atomic Energy Agency, Vienna, Austria; Organization for Cooperation and Security in Europe (OCSE), Vienna; Council of Europe, Strasbourg, France; Organization of American States (OAS), Washington, D.C., U.S.A. It also has diplomatic relations with the European Community. A lay person represents the Holy See as delegate to the International Institute for the Unification of Private Law."

 No doubt, some of you it would appear would simply love to dismantle international treaties dating back to 1815 onwards..... Such as the original Congress of Vienna...............................

 

 

[mint]

Gluey says:

No doubt, some of you it would appear would simply love to dismantle international treaties dating back to 1815 onwards..... Such as the original Congress of Vienna...............................

LOL, Gluey.....

Interesting information too, Gluey.  Now I have a perfectly legitimate excuse for spending so much time on the Forum.  Where else could you participate in a discussion like this?

[Hoddy]

Well of course they shouldn't have done it and it is a great pity that it has been made public. They should have their bottoms smacked.

For my part I think it's being taken too seriously - a bit like the Mohammed cartoons.

Hoddy

[mint]

[quote user="Hoddy"]Well of course they shouldn't have done it and it is a great pity that it has been made public. They should have their bottoms smacked. For my part I think it's being taken too seriously - a bit like the Mohammed cartoons. Hoddy[/quote]

Oh, Hoddy, you are surely not suggesting that they get some of those paedophile priests to do the spanking, are you?[6]