Prius cars

[Hereford]

We would love any comments on Toyota Prius cars.  We saw one at a small motor exhibition and liked the look of it, and certainly like the sound of low petrol consumption.

Has anyone got one or driven one?

One comment we have had (from son) is that they are "urban cars" using electric motor only at low speeds and then switching to petrol if one goes faster. Is that correct?  We live in deep countryside so do "slow" driving quite a lot but also go to the UK and Northern Germany at least once a year.

We need an automatic car which is not easy to find in France (we had to wait months for our current car as we were told they build them in batches).

All comments gratefully received.

H.

[Pickles]

Let's start by saying that in general I like the Prius, and it has a very loyal (and fiercely defensive and protective!) customer base. However, with the best will in the world, the thing about the Prius is that not many drivers actually see real-world driving economies at the level claimed by Toyota (and the same goes for the Honda Insight). Because of the way that it works - ie with regenerative braking, it is more suited to stop-start town driving: once you take it onto the motorway and do distances at constant or near-constant speeds, the battery basically doesn't help and you are really dependent on the economy of the petrol engine - which is good, but if you are going to do motorway miles, then you would be better off with a decent diesel. By the way, the all-electric mode will not take you very far at all: a couple of miles at most.

Regards

Pickles

[cooperlola]

I have been driven in one.  A slightly spooky experience as every time you stop at a set of traffic lights, for example, the engine shuts off so it goes completely quiet!

  In effect yes, the petrol engine charges the battery.  The battery powered motoring tends to be at low speeds as it's not powerful enough to reach motorway speeds, for example, but would be used in villages and towns where you're at 50kph or less.

Nice, comfy, pleasant, if bland motoring, in my limited experience.  The ambulance driver who chauffers me in it likes it a lot and says it's relaxing to drive. 

For economical motoring, there is a turbo diesel Clio with an automatic option on the market.

(Sorry, I simultaneously posted with Pickles but would second what s/he says.)

[Théière]

Coop, some of the VW and derivatives ECO whatsit cars also shut off when you stop and they don't have to lug a quarter of a ton of batteries everywhere pretending to be green when manufacture of the batteries are equivalent to two trips round the world.

Sorry OP had to get that off me chest, I know you made no mention of green anything but you don't drive around with your boot full because it wastes fuel and slows the car, the Prius does.

[cooperlola]

Theiere, I have to say it's not my kinda car!  I'd rather go for a decent little turbo diesel myself but Hereford was specific.

Honda make a hybrid also.  Don't know if has an auto option.

But if I were after a hybrid, this is what I would buy:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100210/CARNEWS/100219985 [:D]

[Will]

I'm certainly not a car expert, but have knowledge of hybrid propulsion technology in other areas. The whole point of the Prius is its hybrid power system, which basically uses a petrol engine that drives the wheels through a transmission system, and linked to that transmission is a pair of electric motors that double as generators. There is a large battery bank, so that the vehicle can be driven solely by the motor/generators under battery power. When the charge in the batteries drops, a petrol engine starts up and drives the generators to re-charge the batteries. Braking energy can also be returned to the batteries through the generators.

It's clever, but although it has been around for a few years is still fairly basic in terms of hybrid technology. This means that overall, although impressive figures for fuel economy and emissions are stated, in 'real' use a modern high-efficiency diesel engine will perform at least as well, probably better. As hybrid technology advances, notably by improving the re-generation and replacing the bulky, environmentally-doubtful batteries with other energy storage devices, then economy and emissions will become a good reason for buying one - the figures don't really add up at present.

If you like it for other reasons beside the hybrid technology, then buy one. If you are seduced by the so-called 'green' credentials, then best to wait a few more years.

[Théière]

Coops, I like your style [:)]

[Will]

Coops, yes, the 'other energy storage devices' seems to be the key; the system I was thinking of seems very similar to that in your link. The version I have seen in model form at Ricardo is much smaller, and thus has much lower gyroscopic effect, than the Porsche one. How the miniaturisation is achieved is still confidential, so even if I understood it - it's basically down to materials and rotation speeds - I couldn't tell you.

It doesn't answer the question about the Toyota, but does suggest that hybrid vehicles without the cost, weight and bulk of battery backs (not to mention the large amounts of CO2 used to make batteries, and their comparatively limited life cycle) are going to happen.

[cooperlola]

As with the Porsche, much of the technology at the forefront of hybrid development is from the race track.  At LM this year, several different examples are on show around the full circuit (probably a bit outside Hereford's budget though.)

http://baszero.ch/racing/2010/05/hybrid-racers-at-le-mans-2010/

 

[just john]

[quote user="Will"]  large amounts of CO2 used to make batteries, and their comparatively limited life cycle [/quote]

I have been driven in one, as a non-believer, by a believer, it was sluggish by comparison to my similar normal auto diesel and didn't have the claimed equivalent economy (by the owners admission) however whether by dint of battery weight or whatever it didn't handle well either by comparison to my auto diesel which kinda disturbed me, the whole trip was one disappointment. What came out clearly to me was that this car did not perform well in any area except possible the reduction of emissions in a semi static town traffic queue (cue Tokyo) and driven by people as a statement that it may save the planet. (wrong).

[Pierre ZFP]

I don't have one of these but I have a work colleague who does so the following is 2nd hand info so make of it what you will.

1) 'Green' credentials and economy.  She was seduced into buying the thing because of this.  Whilst it's OK she says she would have been better to get a small diesel

2) Reliability.  Whereas Toyota's are normally dead reliable, this one ain't and has been back to the garage several times (yes it was bought new to start with)

3) Electric vs Petrol.  She says that she can never get above about 15kph before the petrol engine kicks in which can't be right but the garage can't change it

and last but by no means least

4) the horrible 'green' tyres.  The factory fitted tyres were just awful, having no grip at all, it is better now it has more conventional 'boots'

So, as I said, not my comments but I don't think I'd be getting one unless I had to drive regularly in London's congestion zone

[cooperlola]

Here are the Hondas, btw, Hereford:

http://www.honda.fr/gamme-hybride/index.php?id=41&utm_source=honda_france&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign=gamme-hybride-200907

[peter@pons]

Bear in mind that the batteries do not last for ever and are very expensive to replace -this will affect the residual value.

Also if you are "green" minded,these batteries are lithium/cadmium based and are as eco friendly to dispose of as nuclear waste!

Peter

[Gardengirl]

We had one as a hire car a while ago; I'd requested a small size automatic so I'd be happy driving it and that's what we got. I went back into the airport and claimed the second driver fee back as I decided I wasn't going to even try it. The thing that really fazed me was that the parking brake was up high on the left under the dashboard - there was no way I could do the gymnastics needed for that!  [:D]

During the week we had it it wasn't a bad ride, and the self-parking was a hoot! My OH usually drives a Saab, Porsche or my little automatic VW, and he was reasonably happy with it.

[AnOther]

I think I'd rather walk [;-)]

[Quillan]

I got run over by one, my foot actually. I went to open the gate and didn't hear it and it rolled over my foot. No harm done mind. I am sure I red somewhere that cyclist in London (perhaps) wanted it to make some sort of sound as they couldn't hear if it was behind them or not when running on battery although I suspect it's really a myth.

If I was still living in London I would buy one I think on the basis that there's no point in having a sports car in London and you don't pay congestion charges and get cheap road tax if you have one of these. What I think is funny is they do a hybrid 4x4, OK it comes under the Lexus badge but I really can't see the point. The only experience that people have of off road driving in the Lexus 4x4 is going up and down the curb and parking on the pavement. [:D]

The only negative for me as a town car is would I want to be seen in one, it's not exactly the most attractive car on the road, in fact I would go as far as saying it makes a Reliant Robin look attractive. [;-)]

[Théière]

Q, if you lived in london just have an LPG vehicle all the + none of the minus and if you want to use it on long runs no problem and greener than a Prius.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Théière"]Q, if you lived in london just have an LPG vehicle all the + none of the minus and if you want to use it on long runs no problem and greener than a Prius.[/quote]

My mate used to have a LPG converted Honda and even though the price of the fuel was cheaper the performanc and economy were not as good as when it ran on petrol. In short his practical experience was that it probably cost the same which ever fuel he used. Somebody told me that this is the reason why diesel costs more in the UK, that from a money/price per litre point of view a diesel goes the same distance in the UK as a petrol car and the government does not loose out on its duty.

Edit - Actually these 'Voiture Sans Permit' cars we see in France have turned up in London as they are also congestion charge free (but you need a licence in the UK), I don't know what the road tax situation on them is.

[Will]

Quillan, the only vehicles in the QLEM category (which used to be called VSP in France) exempted from the London congestion charge are electrically powered ones - just the same as any other electrically powered vehicle.

Exactly the same applies as far as road tax is concerned. The Aixam, about the only one I can find listed for UK road fund licence category, costs £110 per year. Electric versions are free. As you need a full driving licence, and fuel consumption is inferior to my Megane, I can't see them catching on in England.

[Hereford]

Thank you to everyone who has posted, it has helped a lot. We give in - we won't bother with a Prius  !! 

When we have further ideas we will post again. We are not "car" savvy and our current car (Peugeot 307) Mrs H hates!! Heavy and no good at all up hills if more than two people - and then without luggage.

H.

[Sunday Driver]

Strange - we have a Peugeot 307 as well, only our's is light and agile and has no problem with hills even when fully loaded. 

Are you sure Mrs H is driving with the handbrake off.....[;-)]

 

[Quillan]

I have one (diesel) also and I think its very good, a friend drove it the other day who has one with the smaller engine and was surprised how well mine performed by comparison. It is important to get the right engine, the bottom end engine is not that powerful and burns quite a bit of juice I believe.

[Hereford]

Our is a 2003 model, and the smaller engine size (see Quillan comment).  Mrs H is the only driver, does 18,000 km a year and does not drive with the handbrake on !

No hard feelings Sunday Driver.

Mrs H.

[just john]

Honest John of Telegraph  citroen-c3-picasso-rave review with a semi-automatic transmission due out, worth a look perhaps.

[Hereford]

Thanks for last posting.  We shall, over the next few months, look at lots of cars.  Semi-automatic sounds a bit iffy !  I have dodgy wrists (and one dodgy shoulder) so cannot drive a car with a manual gear shift, need power assisted steering too but that is normal now.

Mrs H