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Iraq War Logs


pachapapa
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[quote user="pachapapa"]

[quote user="NickP"]And of course if it's on the internet it must be true. [Www][/quote]

The clinton woman seems to find it mildly convincing.

[/quote]

She also found her husband convincing when he said "he did not have sex with that woman" [:D]

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[quote user="Théière"]

Yes, so, on 9-11 and 7-7 extremist didn't give people any chance so don't be that surprised when we visit their countries on a revenge mission that we also take out people. It's war and it's tough on everyone

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[/quote]

'xxx' not the best description and possible racist don't you think?

I think you should go back and look at history how the 'civilised' west divided up that region because they thought it was the best way to decide who owns which part. Churchill who just drew a few lines in the map, not to mention the secret Sykes-Picot Agreement where the French and English in 1916 sat down with a map and divided it further. If you look at the map of the Middle East do you not wonder why a lot of the lines are straight?

Perhaps if you read a bit more history you might realise who the aggressor(s) is/are. I don't agree with war and killing people but you can perhaps see that for years, even centuries, these people have been repressed by the west and when they have the cheek to fight back we get a bit upset. Perhaps if the west pulled all it illegally placed troops out there may not be any further problems. You never know till you try and it worked for Italy and Spain, no more bombs since they withdrew.

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7/7 happened because of Iraq.

9/11 (assuming that it was not at least in part an inside job/cover up) can understood or justified on many levels,

The fact that a bunch of warmongers, traitors, and sycophants were able to persuade the public that it is ok for our boys and girls to committee murder, rape, and terrorism is simply a sad reflection on the how we waste public money on education.
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Q,

I don't disagree with you and yes my comments are as you say but I am not the person who made the decisions way back in history or recently. Yes the civilised west has exploited the region and most regions for it's own gain and before that Genghis Khan exploited the area and most others for his gain, Blah blah blah at infinitem to the start of man on this planet. That is too say, powerful bullies have always exploited the weaker people and killed them for their own gains as has the church as we know it and most other religions.

So my comment was just an observation of a bit more history in the making although it costs lives and money that is the fact.

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It is inconceivable that the no message was left by the people that carried out 9/11. Assuming that a message(s) were left they have been suppressed.

My best guess is that the attack was carried out by Saudi’s whose motivation was to protest against the presence of US troops in Saudi. Not helpful if your agenda is to ring the world with base’s/puppets or to show that you have bigger b____’s than daddy.

Conspiracy nut – no, believer in spin/lies – also no.
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[quote user="Braco"]7/7 happened because of Iraq. The fact that a bunch of warmongers, traitors, and sycophants were able to persuade the public that it is ok for our boys and girls to committee murder, rape, and terrorism is simply a sad reflection on the how we waste public money on education.[/quote] Last time I checked, murder, rape and terrorism were not standard operating practice in any of our Military forces. Of course I may be out of date on that and you may know better.
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Last time I checked, murder, rape and terrorism were not standard operating practice in any of our Military forces. Of course I may be out of date on that and you may know better.

Firing cruise missile’s and dropping bombs into populated area’s especially where you have no legitimate grievance equals terrorism and murder (remember shock and awe).

Case files listing individual offences while no doubt widely suppressed have already been lodged, and no doubt more will be made public in due course.

These latest adventures have been at best a fool’s errand, and at worst highly damaging to the counties that have perpetrated them.

You have fallen into the trap (spin/propaganda) of believing that our armed forces are any better than anyone else’s.

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[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Théière"]

Yes, so, on 9-11 and 7-7 extremist didn't give people any chance so don't be that surprised when we visit their countries on a revenge mission that we also take out people. It's war and it's tough on everyone

Post edited by the moderators -

[/quote]

'xxx' not the best description and possible racist don't you think?

I think you should go back and look at history how the 'civilised' west divided up that region because they thought it was the best way to decide who owns which part. Churchill who just drew a few lines in the map, not to mention the secret Sykes-Picot Agreement where the French and English in 1916 sat down with a map and divided it further. If you look at the map of the Middle East do you not wonder why a lot of the lines are straight?

Perhaps if you read a bit more history you might realise who the aggressor(s) is/are. I don't agree with war and killing people but you can perhaps see that for years, even centuries, these people have been repressed by the west and when they have the cheek to fight back we get a bit upset. Perhaps if the west pulled all it illegally placed troops out there may not be any further problems. You never know till you try and it worked for Italy and Spain, no more bombs since they withdrew.

[/quote]

Indeed, Q: as always, a voice of reason and obvious knowledge: rather than glaring assumption based upon historical ignorance.

A book I would commend for those keen to fairly painlessly improve their understanding of precisely how and why The Paris peace Conference created most of the tensions and current militancy in the Middle East is Margaret MacMillan's Brilliant work, Peacemakers: See here:

For further elucidation, concerning how SIS and the CIA de-stabilized Iran in the early 1950s, read Stephen Kinzer's All The Shah's Men: See here:

Populist knowledge and perspective has, so sadly, been built on massive US/UK hype and media compliance.

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[quote user="Braco"]Last time I checked, murder, rape and terrorism were not standard operating practice in any of our Military forces. Of course I may be out of date on that and you may know better. Firing cruise missile’s and dropping bombs into populated area’s especially where you have no legitimate grievance equals terrorism and murder (remember shock and awe). Case files listing individual offences while no doubt widely suppressed have already been lodged, and no doubt more will be made public in due course. These latest adventures have been at best a fool’s errand, and at worst highly damaging to the counties that have perpetrated them. You have fallen into the trap (spin/propaganda) of believing that our armed forces are any better than anyone else’s.[/quote] I guess I and my men must have missed the part of the briefing about dropping bombs in wartime being terrorism and murder. Individual offences certainly do happen and are fully prosecuted (or should be ), however, individual cases do not reflect the whole Military ethos. I have not fallen into any trap about the quality of our Armed Forces, I KNOW they are the best.........I was one of them.
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Unlike the Army the airforce and navy don't get 'up close and personal' in a physical sense. I do however come from a military family going back many generations and most were (and some still are) either in the army or the royal navy marines. Some bad, inexcusable things have happened when, on the rare occasion, soldiers have lost self control. True, there are some UK armed forces personnel who, like many of us civilians, don't think we (that's the UK) should be in Iraq or Afghanistan but also recognise that part of their job is to go where they are sent.

When you have seen your mates blown up by a road side bomb it is difficult at times under such horrific conditions to keep in control of yourself. There is a basic instinct in many who have 'bonded' with those killed or maimed to take some sort of revenge against the next person they meet who appears to be 'on the other side'. Fortunately one thing the service training does teach you is self control but sometimes people just snap. This is not an excuse and neither should it be but we are all human. It's a bit like that poor chap who was innocently shot on the tube train. What with all that had gone on before people were on edge and a wrong decision was made with terrible consequences. However, had he been a terrorist people would be praising the police. It's all very difficult and not always as black and white as it would seem for the armed forces and the police.

There is no such thing as a 'good war' were everyone plays by the rules, history, even modern history, has taught us that, take WW2 for example.

The French (French Forces of the Interior) massacred many German soldiers after Operation Dragoon (the invasion of the South of France), likewise after during the allied invasion of Europe in 1944 many atrocities and massacres were committed by allied troops including French. After the invasion the French massacred many German troops, one of the more infamous was in  Saint-Julien-de-Crempse (in the Dordogne region). French Moroccan troops of the French Expeditionary Corps, known as Goumiers, committed mass crimes in Italy during and after the Battle of Monte Cassino and in Germany. According to European sources, more than 12,000 civilians, above all young and old women, children, were kidnapped, raped, or killed by Goumiers. This is featured in the Italian film La Ciociara staring Sophia Loren.

British troops took part in small scale looting in Bayeux and Caen. Possible the most infamous was the bombing of Dresden for which serious consideration was given to the possibility of prosecuting Churchill for ordering the raid. Mind you go and ask the people of Coventry at the time what they thought. MI19 regularly tortured prisoners at their headquarters (it is alleged) in London although no charges were ever brought.

The Americans also committed many crimes during WW2 but one that might help explain why soldiers loose control was the shooting of many of the remaining guards at Dachau after they had surrendered.

I am not saying its right for these things to happen but they do and they have done over 100's of years.

One way to stop these things from happening is not to go invading countries for no reason other than you don't like them or your told to go by the US based on fabricated evidence.

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I have not fallen into any trap about the quality of our Armed Forces, I KNOW they are the best.........I was one of them.

With respect I suggest that your comment is exactly the delusional and non questioning remark that one comes to expect from members of cults who have bought hook, line, and sinker into whatever idea is being peddled.

If you had served in all the other armies of the world your comment would have a little more validity, but would still not add one once to the argument as to whether the presence of armies is beneficial.

In the US the fire service is held in similar awe as their army. Why don’t we double the size of the fire service and start fires to keep them busy – it will be little different than what has gone on the past ten years.
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