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Trapped miners Chile.


pachapapa
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Sorry to be a bit prosaic, but what were they mining for? I gather mining is about the only industry in Chile, so is it a very profitable industry?

Apart from the guano which I remember learning about at school. Or was that from Peru?

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They were mining for copper. It's interesting that it happened around the same time as the environmental disaster at the aluminium mine in Hungary. As ever when mining isn't properly regulated it is literally the people at the bottom who suffer.

Hoddy
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I think the President of Chile has been very impressive from what I have seen of him the last few days. His ratings have apparently gone up in Chile and I can understand why, he has promised to make the unregulated mines safer and I trust he will.

I believe that President Sinera iscoming to France soon, great timing for President Sarkozy .
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The President does seem to have well since the accident happened. I would have an even higher opinion of him if, in a country where an average of 34 men a year die in the mines and where mining is 40% of the economy, he had made it a priority before now. I hope that he will also take steps to limit the environmental damage that is caused. Better late than never though and as others have said it was compulsive and very moving viewing.

He appears to have a pre-planned trip to Europe. He meets Cameron on Monday.

Hoddy

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[quote user="gardengirl "] they will have difficulties to face in the future, too - just very different ones! [/quote]

Oh Yes, Too right!  telegraph. Mistresses-and-wives-clash-over-trapped-Chilean-miners

''At least five wives have been forced to come face to face with mistresses whose existence was kept from them by their husbands.

One miner has four women fighting over him in an effort to claim compensation offered to the families of those facing between three to four months underground until a rescue shaft can reach them.''

 

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When they showed the second miner being brought up from the mine on TV, he distributed pieces of rock, which the commentator said contained copper and gold. So presumably it was a successful mine - until it all went wrong!

I was also very impressed with the president of Chile; he only took over in February, following the earthquake, and has now dealt with this awful mine collapse with vigour and determination. I think he's helping Chile to show a new face to the world.

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[quote user="Patf"]Sorry to be a bit prosaic, but what were they mining for? I gather mining is about the only industry in Chile, so is it a very profitable industry?
Apart from the guano which I remember learning about at school. Or was that from Peru?
[/quote]

Guano is bird sh1t which accumulated from breeding sea birds on off shore islands, mostly exploited in peru, used as fertilizer, deposits worked out long ago.Mining is around a third of GDP.

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[quote user="Hoddy"]The President does seem to have well since the accident happened. I would have an even higher opinion of him if, in a country where an average of 34 men a year die in the mines and where mining is 40% of the economy, he had made it a priority before now. I hope that he will also take steps to limit the environmental damage that is caused. Better late than never though and as others have said it was compulsive and very moving viewing. He appears to have a pre-planned trip to Europe. He meets Cameron on Monday. Hoddy[/quote]

So if 34 is an unacceptable number then what would be a reasonable number, perhaps you could express your acceptable death rate in fatal accidents per 100,000 man.shifts.

This would facilitate comparisons between the mining industry in different countries.

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I know very well that many other countries, particularly those with a large coal mining industry, have a much worse record. I don't see that it helps to say that other countries have a worse record.

Where men must must risk their lives in order to make a living I believe it is up to governments to see that regulations are in place and are properly enforced to cut those risks to a minimum. I notice that a number of these men have only been working in the mines for a short time because they have been displaced from other work by the earthquake.

I don't find any number of deaths 'acceptable'.

Hoddy

Hoddy
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OK lets simplify the question by ignoring coal mining and considering metalliferous mining, incidentally the only coal mine in chile is the Lota Mine which closed in 1997.

Comparisons of safety records are important  in reviewing safety procedures; I have just received the Goldfields Annual Report in which note is made of the company's safety record around the world.

Men in chile are not forced to go down the mines, no Bevin Boys there, as to regulations the Chilean Mining Code is comprehensive and precise. BUT the application of the safety regulations depends on the officials supervising the operation not on the Chilean President.

The San José mine has been worked for a period of 125 years and has recently been closed for breach of Safety Regulations, in particular the condition of the second acess; the actual working of the mine appears to have resumed after false representations were made to the Chilean Mining Authorities regarding the completion of prescribed remedial work. The official would appear not to have personally checked these works and has been fired.

The fact that some of the men had limited experience is a spurious argument as it must be patently obvious to anyone that experience is only gained by actually working in a job environment.

In the context of a dangerous occupation stating that any deaths are unacceptable is tautologic nonsense; a bit like supplying the taliban with rubber bullets.

It is very probable that you have never read any Mining Regulations, even in the UK, but the bulk of regulations consider the safety and health of individual persons in their immediate working environment. The cave-in at the San José mine is estimated to have involved at least 750,000 tonnes of rock effectively destroying the infrastructure of the central portion of the mine.

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“It is very probable that you have never read any Mining Regulations”

I do not need to read any mining regulations to know that I believe that they should exist and be enforced. You seem to suggest that it is not the fault of the government if they are not enforced. I disagree with you: part of the role of the government is to see that the regulations are enforced.

You also seem to think that I was suggesting that the miners were forced into their jobs, I was not, I was merely pointing out that sometimes, as I know only too well, that if mining is the only option then that is what men do to provide for their families. I did not imply that some of the men’s lack of experience contributed in any way to what happened.

To say that my unwillingness to find any deaths unacceptable is ‘tautological nonsense” is insulting although not surprising given the generally patronising tone of your post. I understand perfectly well that work place accidents occur even in the best regulated industries and that industrial diseases kill many more. That does not mean that I find these deaths acceptable.

On a brighter note I see that the President Pinera is going to make workplace safety a priority. I wish him well.

Hoddy
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I come from the Rhondda Valley in South Wales and witnessed many aftermaths from rock falls and gas and then seeing six month later your friend's Fathers with bits and pieces of skin being attached here and there Then the siren going at the pit and days later miners in black clothes walking behind the hearses.

I was also there in 1966 when we lost a generation at Aberfan and that too was an after effect of coal mining.

My father died in the mine and they gave us £10 to bury him and then a week later reduced our coal. Again 84/85 strike and whatever the rights and wrongs all gone for ever and I do not mean pits I mean communities.

There was nothing but mining in the Rhondda just after the war save for mining to earn money you had no choice but to go down. Nothing would convince me to go down and follow my Father and my two brothers.

Wherever they are in the world miners are a tough breed. Enough said and Chile was such a wonderful all round effort and one cannot but be moved by the whole rescue effort. In South Wales in the fifties it was simply wooden pit props and budgies in cages to see if there was gas there.
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Whilst returning from a Geological Field Trip in the Manorbier area stopped with a couple of other miners at Aberfan to view the site of the disaster. The disaster was featured in Engineering Geology as a case study.

In view of your tacit acceptance that fatal accidents are part and parcel of a dangerous activity; the total of 8 fatalities sustained in the boring of the Gotthard Base Tunnel seems to me to be higher than I would have expected from a highly mechanised operation.

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[quote user="Hoddy"]..... and your point is ? Hoddy[/quote]

The point is that from your original quote of 40 fatalities in Chile per year.

1) Consideration of numbers employed and shifts worked.

2) Consideration of annual and total tonnage extracted.

Then mining in Chile is safer than "mining" in Switzerland.

Well done Chile and present and past Presidents.

¡Viva Chile, mierda!

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"This rescue operation was extraordinary"

I couldn't agree more, Leo. I am full of admiration for the technical expertise and skill of the engineers who did this and full credit to the Chilean government for making the finance available.

I know that I'm not the only one who shed tears when the men emerged from the rescue pod.

Pachapapa the average number of deaths I quoted was not 40 but 34. Not that I see any point in making comparisons with other countries death rates.

Hoddy
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