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"Abroad Fraud " Crackdown on overseas claimants with assets.


Frederick
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BBC radio this  morning    ... Benefit fraud people are to use land registry details of people living overseas who claim benefit to see if any assets worth over £16.000 such as property are owned and have not been declared ... As Pakistan seems to up with the highest number of offenders ...I imagine that in Corruptistan as it should be called the information will not be freely given !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12081634

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OK let us suppose that I was a wiser man than I am, or perhaps less honest, and that I had managed to swing long disability benefit in the Uk before moving to France, I suppose technically it could have been possible as for a short while I did claim incapacity benefit whilst recovering from malaria which did give me a few NIC credits.

Anyway here I am now living permanently in France and still claiming disabiity benefit at my UK address, what can they possibly get from the land registry other than if  I had sold the house to move abroad in which case I could not be recieving benefits there.

What have I missed that those wiser and less honest havn't?

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[quote user="Chancer"]  Anyway here I am now living permanently in France and still claiming disabiity benefit at my UK address, what can they possibly get from the land registry other than if  I had sold the house to move abroad in which case I could not be recieving benefits there.

What have I missed that those wiser and less honest havn't? [/quote]

It's not a case of what the land registry will tell them and if they're using that as a criteria, I can't see how it can work effectively.  There are many hurdles to jump over to maintain benefits in Europe having started to claim them in the UK but they're a right by both UK and European law for people that should be claiming them, not as an income supplement.  I think what may be being targetted are people who have a foot in both camps, they move to a European country, Pakistan whereever (the USA was also mentioned as a target area) and stay in the UK system as a resident of the UK.  But if their names remain on the land registry because they own what is effectively a maison secondaire in the UK, how will that help.

It's like the 'live in France and don't tell the Uk tax authorities dodge', people live outside the Uk and still maintain their links with the UK health service and benefits system when they should, correctly, transfer their 'domicile' to their new country, join CPAM etc.  It's like health tourism in reverse.  And there's quite a few people in France doing something similar, that came out very clearly during the continuing DLA/AA/CA campaign.

The good thing is the new invalidty/back to work benefit in the UK is really flushing the system through, those people who haven't been re-assessed yet will be and already a good number of people who are deemed fit for a return to work - people off work long-term with stress caused by their previous employment, simply as an example - are being invited to do a different form of work where the stress may not be present.

I think this is, actually, an old policy being revamped or relaunched as a new Year headline. 

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Listening to the guy on the radio I got the impression it was access to land registry records in the countries that Brits have moved to in order to find out who owned property. How they will get that information in Pakistan will be interesting . I cant see the head man in a Pakistani village co-operating willingly . In the EU it will be easier...They want to show a 50% reduction in this kind of fraud within 5 years .
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Well, just think of the number of people who keep links with the UK by using someone's address for say Sky or Kindle.

I did not know that France, for example, kept a central land registry but on second thoughts, the fisc must keep a record of all property transactions which it seems they are going to open to the UK chaps.

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If every Mayor in France got an instruction to send details of each Brit and their owned houses to a central office in Paris to be forwarded to the UK. I can see them doing it. In some countries ...no chance.. unless you paid them more than the house owner did to keep quiet .
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Rather than put the onus on the Mairies, why not ask the fiscal and the various CPAMs to send in details.  If the CPAM details are used and the person's national insurance number is used to cross reference against NHS records, that may throw up some of the Brit health tourists - like people who 'forget' to tell their hospital/doctor in the Uk that they now live abroad and then continue to get treatment there whilst living in France.

The fiscal may be more of an issue because if you're fiddling your health care, you may well be fiddling the tax authorities also, can think of a few examples of that happening here locally.

And how does a Mairie differentiate between a maison secondaire owner and a permenant resident?  If people are on the fiddle, they could play off the Marie against HMG - this could be an administrative nightmare and cost an awful lot more that the £66 million the Government is trying to save.  And as for implimenting this anywhere in the Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi sub-continent, chances are pretty much nil I would think.

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I still fail to see what people living in France or Pakistan can be fiddling from the UK or why they need the land registry to help them identify them.

I am still on my doctors list in my village in Sussex and he is (was) happy to treat me not that I have seen him for a good few years, I cant see this being the fraud that they are talking about.

I really still dont get it, there are benefits I asume that one cannot export so if living in another country one should not continue to claim but surely these people are saying that they still live in the UK and presumably still have an address to back that up.

Are their any benefits payable in the Uk that are means tested and that you do not qualify for if you have a bolt hole elsewhere be it France or Pakistan?

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[quote user="Chancer"]  I am still on my doctors list in my village in Sussex and he is (was) happy to treat me not that I have seen him for a good few years, I cant see this being the fraud that they are talking about.  [/quote]

Whilst you should have come off your doctor's list (why on earth would you want/need to stay on it?), IF your UK doctor knows that you're left the Uk, it's him that commits the fraud.  UK GPs get an annual payment for every person they have on their list, sort of a stipend, whether they see them or not.  Your old GP has had 6 x stipend for Chancer, therefore it's HIM that has committed the fraud IF he knows you're no longer a UK resident.

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[quote user="Chancer"] Blimey if he has me down 6 times no wonder he is happy! [:D][:D][:D]

Seriously though what UK benefits should not be claimed by someone that owns property in France or Pakistan? [/quote]

If you've been in France for 6 years he's been paid 6 annual stipends for you, hence Chancer x 6.

As for the benefits, some are restricted to Uk domiciled people but one of the major qualifications is that you have to be alive which, apparently, some of the claimants no longer are!  People who claim a benefit in France and the same in the UK after France becomes their competant state but much easier to do in Spain apparently.

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Slightly off key but to a many true, I have tried to get friend who lives a couple of doors away from a Polish felllow who lives in a rented house paid for by benifits, as well as getting child benifits works on the black and goes back to poland every few months to build a house he has there. He tells me that they want so much detail that it is not worth it. Knowing this to be how I had a run in while trying to tell the benifit office about the illegals/foreign workers on the house next door a few years ago. Same old ding dong total detail was needed before they woud look into this.
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[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]

[quote user="Chancer"]  I am still on my doctors list in my village in Sussex and he is (was) happy to treat me not that I have seen him for a good few years, I cant see this being the fraud that they are talking about.  [/quote]

Whilst you should have come off your doctor's list (why on earth would you want/need to stay on it?), IF your UK doctor knows that you're left the Uk, it's him that commits the fraud.  UK GPs get an annual payment for every person they have on their list, sort of a stipend, whether they see them or not.  Your old GP has had 6 x stipend for Chancer, therefore it's HIM that has committed the fraud IF he knows you're no longer a UK resident.

[/quote]

Interesting. It seems to work in reverse, too. I've been back on the NI system for more than four years now, yet the other day I got a cancer screening kit sent to me from France.

According to the BBC News story, the fraudulent claims seem to be those made in the name of deceased relatives, people who are 'asset rich' yet claim poverty, people exaggerating the level of disability, or people continuing to claim UK benefits while getting income from working abroad. It doesn't look as if those with genuine claims allowable under EU guidelines and who are legally resident abroad have much to worry about.

 

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One of our main clients travels all over Europe delivering and recovering static and mobile caravans: he also works with the police and insurance underwriters recovering stolen 'vans and is accepted by most UK police authorities as a Forensic Expert.

Couple of years back, a coordinated initiative between Spain and UK hit a number of caravan sites in Southern Spain right from Costas, Brava, Dorada, through Azahar and Blanca down to Costa del Sol.

Many Brits were living in caravan parks in static and touring 'vans which to their horror were snatched as they were stolen.

This then unearthed another can of worms: many were nominally still "Living" in UK, often registered at a daughter's or son's house and claiming a raft of resident-dependent benefits.

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[quote user="Marym2"]Slightly off key but to a many true, I have tried to get friend who lives a couple of doors away from a Polish felllow who lives in a rented house paid for by benifits, as well as getting child benifits works on the black and goes back to poland every few months to build a house he has there. He tells me that they want so much detail that it is not worth it. Knowing this to be how I had a run in while trying to tell the benifit office about the illegals/foreign workers on the house next door a few years ago. Same old ding dong total detail was needed before they woud look into this.[/quote]

 

 I'm not surprised the authorities want a lot of detail, its easy to assume that all immigrants are on benefits, however in my experience that isn't always th case. One of my mothers carers (in fact the best one by some distance) comes from Bulgaria, she lives with her brother and sister in law, neither of which have full time jobs. Both do casual work, and I think a part time cleaning job too. They are much brighter than this but are limited by language skills. Furthermore the brother really needs a back operation but will not have it here as again a stay in hospital would be problematic without the language to communicate.

Sometimes things aren't what they seem or one would guess.

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While I would make it absolutely clear that I am completely 'above board' as a UK resident who lives in hope of eventually sharing time between UK and France in retirement. I am a little intrigued. The French I would have thought would think it appropriate for a Brit to return to the UK for treatement if they were able rather than have the French system provide care whether Insurance required or not...easier for all concerned?

When I retire (If I am spared) just 17 years to go I will have paid most of my life into the UK system...If I continue to avail myself of it and my doctor maintained me on 'his books' to be honest I can't see the problem other than the inconvenience for me.

I am supportive of the driving out of benefits cheating but think the measures applied should be aimed at those with intent to cheat

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The reason why having treatment from a UK doctor/hospital on the NHS when you are resident in France is that the NHS is ONLY for people who are resident in the UK.

If you spend part of your time in France but retain UK residency then you would still be entitled to treatment under the NHS
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[quote user="Frederick"]

BBC radio this  morning    ... Benefit fraud people are to use land registry details of people living overseas who claim benefit to see if any assets worth over £16.000 such as property are owned and have not been declared ... As Pakistan seems to up with the highest number of offenders ...I imagine that in Corruptistan as it should be called the information will not be freely given !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12081634

[/quote]

It's good sign at last the government has initiated action against them.The fraud people have enjoyed a good life style at the expense of taxpayers.The Officials at the concerned department are working out with their counterparts in the countries.
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[quote user="Chancer"]Interesting 1st posting![/quote]

Not really, it was an advert about borrowing money against your UK wage packet, they must be desperate but I deleted the web address. Now Google has dramatically changed the way it ranks things getting your website address listed on as many sites as possible doesn't work anymore which was what they were trying to do. Removing the address does not bring them back and they never bother to check properly.

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