It seems that nowhere is safe..

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

The way I see it is that he is as much a christian as Osama Bin Laden was a muslim.

Anyone can claim to be whatever they want, but the truth is how they choose to act shows us what they really are.

In these cases, mindless murdering bastards.

Religion is not the cause of violence or war. Man is and he uses religion as a tool by twisting the message to suit themselves.

Looking how many different sects there are in christianity. Very few actually agree with one another. I dare say most other religions are the same.

It leads me to the conclusion that finding the right religion has similar odds to winning the Euro lottery! ie no hope.

[mint]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018198/Absolute-horror-Father-Norwegian-gunman-speaks-sons-crimes.html

Didn't know that Carcasonne was in South West France and that Normandy was in Western France, did you?

These days the journos make stuff up and can't be bothered to do the minimal research [:'(]

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Dog"][quote user="pachapapa"]

Whilst the 1518 page manifesto by "Berwick" is heavy reading, a quick idea of the mindset can be obtained from the Trailer to 12.22.

It has been already been pulled from youtube so all the youtube tags on blogs will not link.

The trailer is still viewable on VEOH  at the following link; just click on the over 18 years old option and it will open.

Best viewed in full screen mode as some of the script is small and the black red colours dont help.

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v21123164bZCBQeZ8

Loading the VEOH player will allow viewing of complete 12:22 minute video.

[/quote] It's plagiarized from the Uni Bomber in US. Just certain words changed.[/quote]

Just certain words..you mean in the video clip or the manifesto?

http://www.kevinislaughter.com/wp-content/uploads/2083+-+A+European+Declaration+of+Independence.pdf

[Dog]

Manifesto cannot do video on dialup.

[Dog]

[quote user="Quillan"]

It was in your link you gave earlier and also in the links referred to in that link.

As for the rest of your comments, well it just shows how ignorant you are when it comes the Freemasonry but then you yet again digress which is the norm. Anyway all this stuff is pure speculation, we will hear his reasons on Monday when he makes his statement.

[/quote] In your own words put up or shut up. Let's have the links. If you know so much about Freemasonry answer the questions. The only way that I am ignorant about Freemasonry is that I have resisted the need to join and I am overjoyed daily at one of the best decisions I have ever made.

[Dog]

[quote user="Salty Sam"]

[quote user="Dog"]I think he turned away from Christainity the second he joined the freemasons.[/quote]

Why would you think that? There are plenty of senior church officials proud of their association with Masonry!

[/quote] Name some... please....

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Dog"]Manifesto cannot do video on dialup.[/quote]

OK thanks.

It is possible to download an mp4  file with Miro or something similar, best done when not using the computer for other things. Used to do it with Alice before ADSL arrived, they had a deal where there was no limit on hours at weekend and over night during the week.

The video has been pulled from Youtube and Veoh in france for example!! I have just downloaded it from a spanish speaking site to the HD came in at 32.4 MB for the complete 12 minutes.

[5-element]

Isn't it a little unusual that the killer gave himself up to the police - whereas in apparently similar cases, many seem to kill themselves before they can be arrested.

Now I see he requests to appear in uniform for the court hearing. What uniform?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8658855/Norway-killer-wants-to-wear-uniform-at-court-lawyer-claims.html

Perhaps the greatest task is to determine whether he is either insane, or evil (always such a difficult line to draw in such extreme cases!). "It was cruel, but necessary", he said.

Is it true that under Norwegian law, he cannot be cgiven more than a 21 year prison sentence?

[pachapapa]

True but he could be held without limit if deemed to be a danger to society.

But in 25 years I expect he will be incorporated immediately into the Norwegian Knights Templar Divisions as Honorary Commander.

The swing against Political Correctness and Multicultural Marxism starts.

 

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="Dog"][quote user="Salty Sam"]

[quote user="Dog"]I think he turned away from Christainity the second he joined the freemasons.[/quote]

Why would you think that? There are plenty of senior church officials proud of their association with Masonry!

[/quote] Name some... please....[/quote]

Seek and ye will find, Google is your friend[;-)]

[mint]

Thank goodness, he's totally unrepresentative of most of the human species.

No good doing any sort of psychological profile I don't think.  Don't even claim to know whether it has any bearing on his deed but he did have quite an "unstable" background in that both his parents have been married 3 times each.

OTOH, he had all the social advantages and an internation childhood background with his father's job being in some sort of capacity in the Norwegian embassy in both Paris and London.

Apparently, the old man is considered polite and cultured in the French village to which he has retired.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="5-element"]

Isn't it a little unusual that the killer gave himself up to the police - whereas in apparently similar cases, many seem to kill themselves before they can be arrested.

Now I see he requests to appear in uniform for the court hearing. What uniform?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8658855/Norway-killer-wants-to-wear-uniform-at-court-lawyer-claims.html

[/quote]

I have the nagging feeling that there is a certain amount of stage management going on here. If there were others involved, could this just be a "curtain-up" with some other acts to follow? Breivik has already succeeded to an extent - his appearance today will be in a closed court and there is pressure for a media blackout. This should be done openly, however difficult that might be.

[Gardener]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

True but he could be held without limit if deemed to be a danger to society.

But in 25 years I expect he will be incorporated immediately into the Norwegian Knights Templar Divisions as Honorary Commander.

The swing against Political Correctness and Multicultural Marxism starts.

 

[/quote]

I don't always understand your posts PPP,could you explain this one?

[Gardengirl]

The Riff-Raff Element wrote:

''I have the nagging feeling that there is a certain amount of stage management going on here. If there were others involved, could this just be a "curtain-up" with some other acts to follow? Breivik has already succeeded to an extent - his appearance today will be in a closed court and there is pressure for a media blackout. This should be done openly, however difficult that might be.''

I read today that there are 12 of them - a 'Knights Templar' group set up in, I think, 2002. Apparently the other 11 are still to strike.

I also think it's sad that the hearing is to be in closed court, but I guess it would have been very unpalatable to allow him to declaim whatever poison he wanted.

 

 

 

[Quillan]

There are many groups that say they are Knight Templar's including a drug cartel in Mexico. He claims there are 80 or more of them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/knights-templar-norway-crusadersgroup-explained/2011/07/25/gIQASj2RYI_blog.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/Latin-America-Monitor/2011/0725/Knights-Templar-In-Mexico-like-Norway-criminals-look-to-past-for-legitimacy?cmpid=tweet_count

Interestingly the claim about PCCTS (in the first link) is hotly denied on their website www.pccts.com which some group claim to have set up in 2010 as a hoax. There is a link on the website to origin of the hoax on a Dutch website http://www.quofataferunt.com your need translator software if you don't understand Dutch.

Already there are a few conspiracy websites and posts around the Internet which seems to indicate that there are some out there who just don't give a toss for those innocent people that have been killed by this seemingly deranged idiot and murder, shame on them is what I say.

[Richard51]

The maximum sentence in Norway is 21 years - with release usually after 14.  The aim in Norwegian prisons is for rehabilitation and release back into the community.  The reason that he gave himself up rather than killed himself is that, as the defendant, he is entitled to his 'time' in court to defend / explain himself.  He wants this platform.  This is why there has been a request from Norwegians for the media not to add oxygen to his fire and to not report on anything he says.

Btw - what's with the obsession with Freemasons - this was all about neo-fascist extremist views - hence the killler's choice of 'venue'.

Mrs R51

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Salty Sam"][quote user="Dog"][quote user="Salty Sam"]

[quote user="Dog"]I think he turned away from Christainity the second he joined the freemasons.[/quote]

Why would you think that? There are plenty of senior church officials proud of their association with Masonry!

[/quote] Name some... please....[/quote]

Seek and ye will find, Google is your friend[;-)]

[/quote]

I do so wish that the King James Authorised Version had been quoted; but I assume that "will " is more Politically Correct.

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="Richard51"]
Btw - what's with the obsession with Freemasons - this was all about neo-fascist extremist views - hence the killler's choice of 'venue'.[/quote]

Clutching at straws by Sky and the DM in an attempt to rake up a theory behind the mindset of a madman perhaps?

The Swedish EXPO organization, a group that was set up by the late crime writer Stieg Larsson to monitor fascists and neo-Nazi activities in Scandinavia, reported on Breivik's connections today:

[quote]Anders Breivik, the man who was arrested after Friday's massacre in Norway and now has 92 human lives on his conscience, is a member of the Swedish Nazi web forum Nordisk (Nordic). Some members of that forum regularly call for political terrorism and bomb attacks on government buildings.

According to EXPO, Breivik joined the Nordisk forum - which has more than 22 000 members, most of them from Scandanavia - in 2009 and was very active and radical there. Participants in the forum discuss everything from White Power music to the strategy for getting rid of democracy.

Nordisk was founded in 2007 and rapidly became a favorite forum for Swedish neo-Nazis. Highly positioned members of the Swedish Democratic Party, a nationalistic party holding 20 seats in the Swedish Parliament, are registered in the forum, as are members of the neo-Nazi movement (including, apparently, deranged psychopaths).

Members of the Nordisk forum are connected by their hatred for immigrants and a multicultural Europe and discuss, for example, the Turner Diaries, which is a "practical terrorist manual". The American Federal Bureau of Investigation has labeled this book "the terrorist Bible". It served as a direct inspiration for the terrorist attack in Oklahoma in 1995, when 168 people perished.

Some members of the Nordisk forum openly call for violence. In March 2010, for example, according to the EXPO organization, and anonymous user wrote the following on the forum: "Cars parked next to large buildings with fertilizer + diesel give a nice blast. Skyscrapers go down like the World Trade Centre towers. I haven't said anything about killing. You'll hope the buildings are empty, and if not so, too bad...I don't understand why people don't realise that we have to wage war. The top politicians in government, who live in nice areas a long away from the immigrant threat, have decided that wogs can come here and live on our soil. In our society. Take advantage of what our forefathers have built up for us. In my world, nothing you do to these monsters is immoral."

Norwegian newspaper Verdens Gang reports that Breivik has posted at least 75 Islamophobic and racist commentaries on Facebook. In commentaries posted in 2009-2010 responding to articles by others on the web page www.document.no, which identifies itself as critical of Islam, Breivik criticized European politicians for their efforts to accept the cultures of various ethnic groups.

"When will multiculturalism stop being an ideology designed to disintegrate European culture, identity, nation states and traditions?" Breivik wrote in an entry posted on 2 February 2010. In another commentary dated 16 February of this year, he states: "According to two studies, 13 % of young British Muslims between the ages of 15 - 25 support the ideology of Al Qaida."

Breivik also wrote that he is an adherent of the "Viennese school of thought", which oppises multiculturalism and the spread of Islam. He has also written that he admires Geert Wilders, the anti-Islamic, populist Dutch politician. On Saturday, Wilders issued the following statement with regard to Breivik's crime: "I despise everything he stands for and everything he has done."

Nina Hjerpset-Ostlie, a journalist who contributes to www.document.no, told Reuters that she met Breivik at the end of 2009. She said he struck her as passionate about developing the website as a way to defend against what he perceived as a rising trend of multiculturalism. "The only thing we noticed about him was that he was an ordinary-looking man with some very ambitious, unrealistic ideas for promoting our website," she said, adding that Breivik was active on the site at the end of 2009, but lost interest during 2010.

Breivik was a member of the populist "Progress Party" (Fremmskrittspartiet) from 1999 - 2004 and a member of the party's youth organization during those same years. He managed local branches of the youth organization from 2002 - 2004.

 [/quote]

[Evianers]

IF, one can believe what one reads in that Anders Breivik's father has been estranged from his son throughout his life [separating from his mother when AB was 1 year old and only having seen him intermittently during his formative years], then is he in fact qualified to pass judgement on his son's activities? Just a thought.

[mint]

Er, Evianers, I have mentioned his father at least twice in the thread "So nowhere is safe" and there has been no comments so far.  Also, pictures, etc of father's house, occupation etc on that thread.

Would be good if you kept your comments there as it might be good to read it all in one place.

How can one be responsible for one's children?

[Evianers]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

Er, Evianers, I have mentioned his father at least twice in the thread "So nowhere is safe" and there has been no comments so far.  Also, pictures, etc of father's house, occupation etc on that thread.

Would be good if you kept your comments there as it might be good to read it all in one place.

How can one be responsible for one's children?

[/quote]

Fine, 17, but I looked before posting, and have looked now in the postbag, even did a search under "nowhere is safe" and could not find your thread - hence my new one

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Evianers"]IF, one can believe what one reads in that Anders Breivik's father has been estranged from his son throughout his life [separating from his mother when AB was 1 year old and only having seen him intermittently during his formative years], then is he in fact qualified to pass judgement on his son's activities? Just a thought.
[/quote]

 Perhaps when he saw him he didn't like him - frankly my instict is to leave the father alone - its obvious he has his own life now and I feel rather sorry for him being put on the spot - and has he really said anything new ?

[mint]

[quote user="Evianers"][quote user="sweet 17"]

Er, Evianers, I have mentioned his father at least twice in the thread "So nowhere is safe" and there has been no comments so far.  Also, pictures, etc of father's house, occupation etc on that thread.

Would be good if you kept your comments there as it might be good to read it all in one place.

How can one be responsible for one's children?

[/quote]

Fine, 17, but I looked before posting, and have looked now in the postbag, even did a search under "nowhere is safe" and could not find your thread - hence my new one
[/quote]

Hey, Evianers, no probs.  Father and stepmother seem very well set up and their bungalow in the Aude looks wonderful.  I am sure the poor old chap is already thinking about whether he could have done anything different.

But, with one's children, you can only do your best and, after that, they do what they will anyway.

 

[Clair]

[quote user="Evianers"][quote user="sweet 17"]...Would be good [snip] to read it all in one place.

[/quote]

... I looked before posting [snip]... and could not find your thread...[/quote]

Threads now merged [:)]