Cameron veto: are we now truly marginalised?

[just john]

The exchange rate today seems to be building a stairway to heaven . . .[:D]

[mint]

JJ, stop exaggerating![:D]  1.1869 is hardly a stairway to heaven!

But, I accept that it seems to be going up in sterling's favour at the moment.

[pachapapa]

Am I, a happy bunny.[:-))]

[IMG]http://av.r.ftdata.co.uk/files/2011/12/Euro-rout-Reuters-e1323792704143.jpg[/IMG]

[Bugsy]

Nice speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Vdqw8aKm_4s

.

[Pickles]

I must admit to being completely baffled by what Cameron has "saved" us from. The only thing that seems to be remotely relevant is the Tobin Tax. He doesn't appear to have saved London from the "Tobin tax", because that can be brought in through majority voting in the future. And in any case, I'm not sure what is actually WRONG with the "Tobin tax" as it currently seems to be defined. It would not affect the majority of retail banking transactions from what I have seen, and as far as investments go - don't we already pay Stamp Duty on shares, at a far higher rate than is proposed by the Tobin Tax? What's the difference?

All that we seem to have done is to walk away from the table at which future European policy will be made. How is that a good thing?

[pachapapa]

The "tobin" tax would have little if any practical effect on traditional banking.

But it would have significant effect on speculative casino banking.

Schaüble covered just that in an interview with the FT.

[breizh]

In it's original conception Tobin Tax was great. Tax all financial transactions, and redistribute the money generated to the world's poorest. 100% agree.

The Financial Transaction Tax would be the first time the EU has taxed it's population directly, for the benefit of itself. Sorry, that is wrong. The EU has no democratic mandate to tax directly.

To me it is a fundemental issue of sovereign democracy versus technocratic bureaucracy.

Do not call it a Tobin Tax.

[Bill]

[quote user="breizh"]

In it's original conception Tobin Tax was great. Tax all financial transactions, and redistribute the money generated to the world's poorest. 100% agree.

The Financial Transaction Tax would be the first time the EU has taxed it's population directly, for the benefit of itself. Sorry, that is wrong. The EU has no democratic mandate to tax directly.

To me it is a fundemental issue of sovereign democracy versus technocratic bureaucracy.

Do not call it a Tobin Tax.

[/quote]

 

I understand, the Eu gets a slice of all import duties, and I can not recall for sure, but possibly Vat.

 

[breizh]

Correct, but those are Treaty mandated.

[Quillan]

And what is the money to be used for?

[idun]

Is there much left after all the EMP's and techoncrats have had their salaries and expenses?

[mint]

[quote user="Pickles"]All that we seem to have done is to walk away from the table at which future European policy will be made. How is that a good thing?


[/quote]

Pickles, I believe he had to do it to appease the eurosceptics from his own party.

It was the decision of a small-minded, party man and not one of an astute politician acting on an international stage.

Having said that, if I were him, I'd call an election and get rid of the limp-damps.  Then, with victory under my belt, I'd be in a stronger position to dictate terms, both to my own people and to the unsympathetic Germans and French.

That's NOT what I want to happen, mind.....I'm just thinking that that could be how Cameron might play it to shore up his own position.[:P]

[pachapapa]

France downgraded by Dagong 08/12/11; now that's real marginalisation in the same class as I[:)]taly.

How about Fitch the froggy ratings agency jumping in before Moody ans S & P.

http://www.dagongcredit.com/dagongweb/english/pr/show.php?id=158&table=web_e_zxzx

[Russethouse]

It was the decision of a small-minded, party man and not one of an astute politician acting on an international stage.

 And what should he have done ?

[woolybanana]

I think she was referring to sarkozy, RH. Cameron did the right thing.

[mint]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

It was the decision of a small-minded, party man and not one of an astute politician acting on an international stage.

 And what should he have done ?

[/quote]

It's FAR too early to say, RH![;-)]

[woolybanana]

Hehehehehehehehe!!![6]

[Quillan]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

It was the decision of a small-minded, party man and not one of an astute politician acting on an international stage.

 And what should he have done ?

[/quote]

Well it was a big enough train with a big enough light on the front so he should have seen it coming and made sure he left one of the doors slightly ajar. Now there can be no negotiation for the UK, he has closed the door, bolted it and drawn the draw bridge up, he has nowhere to go. I do wish Milliband would stop bleating on, he said he would have done the same anyway. No wonder his party sat part in silence at the last PMQ's while he rabbited on.

[woolybanana]

Cameron stood up for democracy, probably, but definitely against Franco german axis which was and is attempting to both dictate an uncertain route and lie about the possibility of survival.  By jumping out and  slamming the door when the train was headin for the abyss, he may just have saved Europe in the long-term.

[DerekJ]

I believe a certain Neville Chamberlain tried appeasement in the past. Well, that worked out well.

[Quillan]

[quote user="DerekJ"]I believe a certain Neville Chamberlain tried appeasement in the past. Well, that worked out well.[/quote]

Yes but there was a reason for his 'madness'. He knew that the UK was not properly prepared for war and he needed time to do so which was what it was really about.

[Quillan]

[quote user="idun"]Is there much left after all the EMP's and techoncrats have had their salaries and expenses?[/quote]

Actually yes there is if you forget about the alarmist, anti EU cr*p you get in the papers. The talk is in Euros (or Pounds) so 8.2bn Euros on admin and parliment seems a lot of money, which it is, yet in reality as a percentage it equates to 5.7% and the cost of the Commision has actual dropped by (-)8.3%. I have put a link at the bottom so you can have a look yourself and explore some more if you wish. I should add that these figures are for 2011.

http://ec.europa.eu/budget/figures/2011/2011_en.cfm

You may also find the following link interesting that explains away the myth that all the money goes on administration LINK and before people say the accounts are not audited then interestingly the next question down on the 'myths' list explains why, what is involved.

[Pickles]

Diversionary tactics?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16222988

[Quillan]

Well call me cynical if you want but aren't the French elections in 2012 for both the President and the National Assembly (April to May and the June respectively). I am sure if the boot were on the other foot we would be seeing some 'lively' comments coming from Cameron and the Tories. This is not about EU politics it's French politics pure and simple. I am sure Merkel would be much more active if it were election time in Germany but at least she is showing some effort to hold out an olive branch, just unfortunate Cameron has so firmly closed and bolted the door.

[YCCMB]

As Corporal Jones may have opined..."They don't like it up 'em"...

I was reading, in the faraway land where I have been hiding for the past week, some comment on the BBC website. I no longer remember who said it, or when, or where, but the opinion was expressed that France has, in the past, been similarly unsporting with regard to proposed changes to the CAP, and Germany has refused to favour legislation which might have had an adverse effect on its large automotive industry. So, if "Call me" wants to refuse to endanger an important lynchpin of the British economy, he's only doing what Sarko would do if farmers were involved, or what Merkel would do if BMWVWMercedes was threatened.

So, shorty and the hausfrau are really only tasting a bit of their own medicine, surely?