Personal Protection

[idun]

So after a severe beating, the aggressor says that they will come back and kill their victim and no one will be able to get there in time.

How do you protect yourself when out and about and your home against infraction?

 

This is a very serious question as I am very worried about someone I know.

 

Yes, the police know and are doing whatever is necessary about the beating, but apparently are doing nothing about the threats, real threats might I add, this person is a maniac. This is in the UK, but sadly I know of someone who was in a similar situation in France, but they left France to get away. This person cannot go anywhere.

[AnOther]

They might consider an injunction but it can only ever be as good as the respect it's given by

the prohibited person. Unfortunately the police response to violation can only

ever be reactive not proactive.

On the assumption that it's a woman under threat this site might help.

http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-violence-survivors-handbook.asp?section=000100010008000100330002

Incidentally a threat to kill is a serious offence in and of itself, are there witnesses to it ?

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/threats_to_kill/

[nectarine]

criminy that sounds serious. I'd contact my MP, the papers, everyone .. and make this public or spread it as far as possible.

A long time ago, in my teens, I knew someone who was threatened by a man that she'd dated. He did crazy things and followed her - this was in the days before 'stalking' become a crime or was even taken seriously. Finally she went into a rocker's pub, found some hairy bikers and put cash on the table - they visited the chap, gave him a serious warning and a few wallops, and the problem was solved. I don't recommend that but, heck, it worked for her.

[Russethouse]

I just looked at 'self defence' sprays on Amazon, they are legal ( these are not pepper sprays) but if caught carrying it, it might be confiscated.

I wonder what other things might serve a similar purpose? Depending on the gender of the victim, maybe a mini can of hairspray, or deodorant would be a wise investment........I wouldn't fancy either being sprayed in my face.

What age group is the victim of these threats?

'

[Pommier]

I was thinking of some sort of tazer device. It seems apparant that the person needs to be able to defend themselves, hopefully without breaking the law.Are the police sympathetic? Would they turn a blind eye to the carrying of a potential weapon? Have they any suggestions?

Although the victim can't move house it'd be sensible if they can try to avoid being alone in quiet places

[Gardengirl]

It must be incredibly frightening. Hope something works - a spray of

some sort might possibly help. But if somebody is totally determined, there's

little that will put them off; there have been cases of severe injury and worse which have come to

light over the last few years, even after police have fitted alarms for the victim.

A friend of our son's was stalked over many years, despite going to

court several times. He found out all about her family, including the

nursery her children were at, and was caught with contact details of her

friends and family, notes about where they worked etc. Her life was

spoiled in so many ways.

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="Pommier"]

I was thinking of some sort of tazer device. It seems apparant that the person needs to be able to defend themselves, hopefully without breaking the law.Are the police sympathetic? Would they turn a blind eye to the carrying of a potential weapon? Have they any suggestions?

Although the victim can't move house it'd be sensible if they can try to avoid being alone in quiet places

[/quote]

If this is appertaining to someone in the UK, the possession alone of a tazer is illegal.

Imagine the consequences of the assailant getting control of the tazer and using it on the victim?

A loud personal alarm, and anything which is carried about the person can be used as a defensive weapon. A scent spray containing a mix of capsicum dissolved in peppermint oil will work a treat - as long as the person gets opportunity to use it on the assailant first!

Again, if this is appertaining to the UK, a visit to the police and a request to be put in touch with Victim and / or Witness Support would seem to be appropriate in this case.

[idun]

There is an injunction, but when he said he'd finish the job, said that no one could get to her in time. And no witnesses to these threats. I know a few female black belt karateka's who'd make mincemeat of him. This is not the case.

She is moving. But he isn't stupid and will soon find where she lives.

Yes, interesting about these sprays, but as with all these things, it would be getting to them before he did.

 

The police have suggested a personal alarm, which she will get and I know that her new house will be alarmed. But alarms have to be switched off as we move in and out.  I was hoping that tazers were not illegal. Protecting oneself apparently is not allowed. Can't hurt someone who is trying to kill us, just tickety boo, isn't it.

 

It would be good if they put him away, but I'm starting to think that they will not.

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="idun"]

The police have suggested a personal alarm, which she will get and I know that her new house will be alarmed. But alarms have to be switched off as we move in and out. [/quote]

If I can make a suggestion with regard to the proposed alarm system.

It would certainly be worthwhile having a system which will allow both fixed and remote 'panic' buttons. Once pressed in 'anger', they trigger an alert at either a control centre or direct to the police.

Contact the Crime Prevention Officer for recommended installers and systems.

[idun]

Yes, I'll suggest it. She isn't thinking clearly. That is why I'm starting to ask questions. Not sleeping, looking over her shoulder all the time. And becoming even more vunerable daily.

 

[Pommier]

Does she live alone? If so, any chance of someone else living with her? It's a shame tazers are illegal; when I looked on-line there was even one which looked like a mobile phone, so she could have carried it very discreetly. Seems like it's always the criminals who get the protection.

[Hoddy]

There is a National Stalking Helpline in the UK with useful advice, including how to get the police to take it seriously.

Hoddy

[idun]

This isn't stalking perse. This is someone who is a jealous maniac and is intent on doing harm now. They tried to dominate and it didn't work. So then came the attack, and now we are at this stage.

Some one live with them? I don't think that that is possible for the time being.

 

[PaulT]

The UK police forces seem to be very under staffed for what is needed......

Something in the back of my head is telling me that I read in a newspaper some time back about a large area that only has one police person on duty at night, so if they were at the far side what chance of rescue.

Sorry Idun not helpful at all but the problem of feeling safe because the police are aware.

My impression of the police, especially with more work being given over to private contractors as is the case with Lincolnshire where we live in the UK, that of prime importance is the issue of crime numbers for submission to insurance companies.

Your friend needs to contact all and sundry including as has been mentioned her MP and state in writing that she will hold each responsible for not protecting her should she be attacked.

As has also been mentioned it would be good if a couple of heavies had a reasoned discussion with the person to persuade them that their ideas were not good. However, as is often highlighted the dissuaders would be the ones in the dock.

Paul

[Boiling a frog]

It is all very well stating that all and sundry will be held responsible, but the person who is responsible is the person who is issuing the threats.

The Police cannot sit with the person 24/24 unless there is positive proof that an attack is imminent and I do not quite see what an MP or anyone else can do.

There have been several rather good suggestions on this thread, but the OP seems to have adopted a rather negative dismissive attitude to these suggestions rather than being positive and proactive.

The person needs to have witnesses to these threats, that is a simple matter of fact before the police can arrest and prosecute. Tape recording conversations is one method, always having someone with you, the police have specialists who can advise, but ultimately the target of the harassment needs to take positive action.

Perhaps something like this

http://www.c-p-p.co.uk/farbgel-criminal-identifier-defence-spray

Protection from Harassment Act 1997 deals with the situation

[cooperlola]

Physical protection is one aspect but clearly this guy has also got into her head which is doing more damage.  My best suggestion would be for her to get in contact with a women's shelter or protection service.  They can help make any move less trace-able, and maybe even provide protected accommodation while things are sorted out.  Certainly they can provide psychological help which it sounds as though she may need.

http://fourinfo.cioc.ca/record/SHA0064

[Quillan]

From a legal point of view and under UK law.

First she needs to get an injunction (against contact in any form, distance around her house and person). If this is broken there is no automatic arrest r penalty. Next, if the latter fails, she needs to get a restraining order, this can lead to an arrest but not necessarily a custodial sentence or fine, can be just a formal reprimand. The final piece is to attach a penal order to the restraining order which will result in an automatic custodial sentence if the restraining order is broken. Has to be done in the order I have given and she will need legal representation etc for the latter two. You can only attach a penal order to an 'order' hence the restraining order and not the injuction.

[idun]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]It is all very well stating that all and sundry will be held responsible, but the person who is responsible is the person who is issuing the threats. The Police cannot sit with the person 24/24 unless there is positive proof that an attack is imminent and I do not quite see what an MP or anyone else can do. There have been several rather good suggestions on this thread, but the OP seems to have adopted a rather negative dismissive attitude to these suggestions rather than being positive and proactive. The person needs to have witnesses to these threats, that is a simple matter of fact before the police can arrest and prosecute. Tape recording conversations is one method, always having someone with you, the police have specialists who can advise, but ultimately the target of the harassment needs to take positive action. Perhaps something like this http://www.c-p-p.co.uk/farbgel-criminal-identifier-defence-spray Protection from Harassment Act 1997 deals with the situation[/quote]

 

Well I agree that all and sundry should be held responsible, especially the MP........; why, because they are the law makers and they are prepared to pussy foot around dangerous people these days. Remember he has already attacked. And the naughty boy wasn't even held in custody.

Me taking a negative attitude. Well, what on earth do you want me to say. This man is a 'heavy' himself.  He is a big bloke and appears pleasant and affable, a big softie actually. And I know some lovely big softies, big men, who are really and truly gentle giants, even when they have been drinking...... This man simply has a dark side that is plain wicked and evil, and unlike Dr Jekyll doesn't need any potion to bring out Hyde. He also works in an industry with plenty of heavies.

 

So back to my negative attitude. Well, there are some things that are unavoidable. Even if she went into a refuge, she has commitments in her life that are unavoidable and a moron could work out what they were and just watch and wait and follow. He has been clever enough to never say anything that is witnessed, since the assault. He may be a monster, but he isn't stupid. He believes he will get away with the assault or simply get community service.

 

She is terrified and I am worried sick for her. I have passed on every suggestion and have even mentioned now that the electoral registration forms are out, that she should do something about that. So everything has been taken into account. BaF this isn't a recipe or how to unblock a septic tank, this is someone's life at risk, really at risk and no matter what she does to protect herself, unless he is put away, she is not going to be safe.

 

Re stalking. He really doesn't need to. I think he has worked that out that terror tactics are working at the moment. And he is biding his time.

So thankyou all for the suggestions, they are passed on.

 

And if anyone finds a legal loophole of something that she can use to really protect her self that could hurt him if he comes to finish the job........... please pm me.

 

 

[bettyboop]

I know you have said he is a big bloke, couldnt your friend join some sort of class and learn some self-defence, arent there certain parts of the body,that can render someone helpless - a good kick in the goolies would be one.

[Boiling a frog]

Reading not entirely between the lines what you really want is for this person, without so much as due process to be locked up and the key thrown away. This will not happen because , fortunately, there's due legal process in the UK,so she needs to think how to solve the situation, not by making everyone responsible,because that does not solve the situation.

She needs to take positive action, as I have already said, if she is in so much fear of her life then these unavoidable commitments pale into insignificance compared to being killed. This is where I am talking about a negative attitude, every suggestion that has been made has been rejected for a reason which is not substantial in relation to the alleged threat to kill.

I gave a link to a personal defence spray which is totally legal.

I suspect that will also be rejected for some reason.

[Russethouse]

So after a severe beating, the aggressor says that they will come back and kill their victim and no one will be able to get there in time.

 What are the police doing about the beating ? Surely its going to court ?

[PaulT]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]It is all very well stating that all and sundry will be held responsible, but the person who is responsible is the person who is issuing the threats. The Police cannot sit with the person 24/24 unless there is positive proof that an attack is imminent and I do not quite see what an MP or anyone else can do. There have been several rather good suggestions on this thread, but the OP seems to have adopted a rather negative dismissive attitude to these suggestions rather than being positive and proactive. The person needs to have witnesses to these threats, that is a simple matter of fact before the police can arrest and prosecute. Tape recording conversations is one method, always having someone with you, the police have specialists who can advise, but ultimately the target of the harassment needs to take positive action. Perhaps something like this http://www.c-p-p.co.uk/farbgel-criminal-identifier-defence-spray Protection from Harassment Act 1997 deals with the situation[/quote]

The all and sundry have a duty to protect so please do not edit that important parts from your quote. The MPs are the law makers and they are the ones slashing police budgets. Yes, the aggressor is the one responsible if the person is attacked but others are responsible for preventing the attack.

I do not think that the OP is being negative - there have been many cases of people being threatened and some being killed despite the authorities being aware.

Yes, there is probably processes to go through as Q has highlighted but these do not protect the threatened person - some people break the law time and time again, a very rosy place where an injunction is obtained and the aggressor desists.

Paul

[Boiling a frog]

So, just how do the "others" prevent the attack? .

I am fully aware that people are threatened all the time and that the current process cannot /does not protect them, but apart from locking up the perp without any due legal process there is only a certain amount that can be done.

What do you suggest, apart from some sort of draconian law where the alleged victim only has to say that the person is threatening them and the perp is immediately locked up on suspicion and is never released.

[Quillan]

There are two sides to every story and we don't even really have one side just a second hand story (sorry Idun). The person(s) concerned are not members of the forum, they do not have the ability to speak here for themselves nor reply. There are several suggestions already, including legal ones, and personally what with them and a bit of common sense the person should be OK.

[idun]

What is happening now is akin to torture. As I said, no sleep to speak of, terrified and exhausted.

I am in the process of passing on every last bit of info from here; slowly and bit by bit, as if I reel off a long long list, it simply will not go in. What do you want me to do, slap her around the face, tell her to pull herself together, take it all in and make sure she does everything. I can't make her better, energise her at the moment. Just help her to be able to live in security.

The trouble with all things we get hold of to protect ourselves is that we have to be able to use them before the assailant gets hold of them and uses them on us. So re dismissing stuff out of hand, no I'm not, but I am trying to be realistic.

Re the locking people up, well at the moment he has commited a very violent act, which did not even merit a night in the cells. So as far as I am concerned, the law is hogwash and not fit for purpose. He should not have been bailed without a thought and immediately.

And no, I'm not saying that 'just saying something' should get you locked up.........however, look at that person who threatened Robin Hood Airport, it was in the news last week....... they were onto them like a shot. So actually 'just saying something' can get you arrested these days, just the law will not protect battered women who remain in danger.........which now I have thought about it, has really really annoyed me! Misogyny rules apparently!