Watch out for your pensions

[NormanH]

If this lot get more influential!

In the book, the group also claim that the country is being dragged down by

support by baby boomers in their 60s and 70s for higher taxes in order to

fund their pensions and live in comfort. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9483268/Young-Tory-MPs-blame-lazy-baby-boomers-for-Britains-economic-decline.html

Oddly enough it is hard to see what real work some of them have done:

'financial analysis' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwasi_Kwarteng

'worked as an advisor' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Skidmore

'press office' 'advisor' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel

Not exactly 45 years down the mine or scrubbing a hospital floor is it [:P]

[Pommier]

I've got doubts about when or if I'll get a state pension. First it was going to be at age 60, then 65, now it's 66. Will it be the flat-rate (£140) pension or  will that be for UK residents only or maybe means tested, or maybe the age will go up again...........best not rely on it I think!

[nomoss]

I am prevented from commenting by political correctness.

(I hope that's PC)

[Rabbie]

[quote user="NormanH"]If this lot get more influential!

In the book, the group also claim that the country is being dragged down by support by baby boomers in their 60s and 70s for higher taxes in order to fund their pensions and live in comfort. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9483268/Young-Tory-MPs-blame-lazy-baby-boomers-for-Britains-economic-decline.html

Oddly enough it is hard to see what real work some of them have done:
'financial analysis' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwasi_Kwarteng
'worked as an advisor' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Skidmore
'press office' 'advisor' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel

Not exactly 45 years down the mine or scrubbing a hospital floor is it [:P]
[/quote]And then they wonder why we think they are out of touch with ordinary people

[Quillan]

or are ordinary people out of touch with reality?

[Rabbie]

[quote user="Quillan"]or are ordinary people out of touch with reality?[/quote]Possibly. In any case there is a widenng gap between politicians of all parties and the people they are supposed to represent.

Posh boy millionaires who don't know the price of a pint of milk just don't understand the everyday problems of ordinary people.

[Quillan]

Your right, they have no idea of what the people want and what their aspirations are. The problem with them is they want the power often at any cost by telling people what they want to hear then discovering they can't deliver. The current French president (I know it's moving off a bit) is a classic example. Now he is in power he has been told that he can't do this and he can't do that because if he does something will happen, typical "Yes Prime Minister" stuff.

Going back to pensions, I am absolutely staggered that nobody saw this coming as many have known about the "baby boomers" for years and just like the current pensioners who are seeing their life savings dwindle away because of low interest rates and the need to use the capital it's all going to explode at some point and with both it will be sooner rather than later.

Personally I think all MP's should complete an intelligence test before being allowed to stand for election and voters should also require one to be allowed to vote.

[NormanH]

Which was a problem for Sarkozy in France. It was not so much the few attempts to streamline the administration that were badly received, it was the extravagant lifestyle.

I am increasingly concerned by a current of opinion in politics that is turning against the generation that paid for their  education and welfare.

There is already a rise in 'hate crimes' against disabled people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/aug/14/disability-hate-crime-benefit-scrounger-abuse?INTCMP=SRCH

 Can we expect more blame to be heaped on pensioners too?

[Frederick]

[quote user="Rabbie"]

[quote user="Quillan"]or are ordinary people out of touch with reality?[/quote]Possibly. In any case there is a widenng gap between politicians of all parties and the people they are supposed to represent.

Posh boy millionaires who don't know the price of a pint of milk just don't understand the everyday problems of ordinary people.

[/quote]

If you look at primitive cultures world wide .Its usually the old and the wise  ones that are the leader of the tribe ... Maybe we should say you cant stand for  Parliament until you are 60  and have done somthing with your life first ?                                                    

[Mac]

[quote user="Pommier"]I've got doubts about when or if I'll get a state pension. First it was going to be at age 60, then 65, now it's 66. Will it be the flat-rate (£140) pension or  will that be for UK residents only or maybe means tested, or maybe the age will go up again...........best not rely on it I think![/quote]

I agree. I'm all for equality but as it stands at the moment my husband will get his pension at 65 (he's currently 59) and I will get mine at 66 (I'm 58)!!

[5-element]

[quote user="NormanH"]
I am increasingly concerned by a current of opinion in politics that is turning against the generation that paid for their  education and welfare.
There is already a rise in 'hate crimes' against disabled people.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/aug/14/disability-hate-crime-benefit-scrounger-abuse?INTCMP=SRCH

 Can we expect more blame to be heaped on pensioners too?
[/quote]

This is a horrifying article, Norman, which everyone should read - anyone of us could be a target at some point in our lives. Thank you for posting it, I had no idea it was quite that bad - and probably getting worse, and yes, I can imagine that the elderly are close to being targeted too. And we are supposed to be a civilised society.[:'(][:@]

[KathyF]

[quote user="NormanH"]If this lot get more influential!

In the book, the group also claim that the country is being dragged down by

support by baby boomers in their 60s and 70s for higher taxes in order to

fund their pensions and live in comfort. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9483268/Young-Tory-MPs-blame-lazy-baby-boomers-for-Britains-economic-decline.html

Oddly enough it is hard to see what real work some of them have done:

'financial analysis' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwasi_Kwarteng

'worked as an advisor' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Skidmore

'press office' 'advisor' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priti_Patel

Not exactly 45 years down the mine or scrubbing a hospital floor is it [:P]

[/quote]

I think they should be careful about alienating the section of the population most likely to vote or at the next election they may find their parliamentary careers were ignominiously short...

[KathyF]

Oops, somehow my reply got tangled with Norman's original post and the software won't allow me to delete and repost. Sigh....

[Rabbie]

[quote user="KathyF"]Oops, somehow my reply got tangled with Norman's original post and the software won't allow me to delete and repost. Sigh....[/quote]But it will allow you to edit your post to disentangle it.[:)]

[KathyF]

Doh! Why didn't I think of that? Thanks, Rabbie.

PS Now editing has messed up the original quote and I can't get it right. Double sigh.....

[idun]

[quote user="NormanH"]Which was a problem for Sarkozy in France. It was not so much the few attempts to streamline the administration that were badly received, it was the extravagant lifestyle.

I am increasingly concerned by a current of opinion in politics that is turning against the generation that paid for their  education and welfare.
There is already a rise in 'hate crimes' against disabled people.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/aug/14/disability-hate-crime-benefit-scrounger-abuse?INTCMP=SRCH

 Can we expect more blame to be heaped on pensioners too?
[/quote]

 

 

But I put the blame firmly on my generation, I'm 59 and the same age as Tony Blair.....and those a generation above me and half a generation below.

 

Just seen an advert on TV, said, unrealistic health care and unrealistic pensions and a baby sat there with a tee shirt stating 'Born Bankrupt' the program is how the next generations will cope with 'our' legacy.

 

Should I blame the rich? I really have no idea as the rich have always existed. What I do know is that the working person has never ever had such good lives and I am fully aware as to how priviledged I have been, no job worries, ease of purchasing a home and just about everything I would like.

 

It's all a mess, and frankly if I was twenty or thirty and struggling, I'd say 'sod 'em' those oldies (me included) that have left the country in such a mess and simply make sure that I could bring my kids up properly, that they have a home, health care, food and education.  

 

I have said for the last 30 years, we shouldn't depend on there even being pensions. Friends have thought I was joking, but I never was.  Life could get very hard in the future.

 

 

So shall we have the war that Michel Drucker talked of, had a program about 20 odd years ago. Pensioners against the young with families? He could be right, sadly. I'll personally have to back the future and not the past.

[KathyF]

But idun, when my husband and I were 20 or 30 we were struggling too, with a mortgage to pay, a family to bring up and no holidays or new cars for years and years on end. I'm afraid I don't accept that my generation or the one above is to blame for the mess. On the whole we were hard-working, frugal and knew how to save and go without if necessary.

My husband and I are retired professionals, but have never had a credit card in our lives. We were brought up to be careful with money, to save and wait for things, rather than take the easy credit, "must have it now" approach which is so prevalent nowadays.

If anyone is to blame for the mess we're in I would suggest it was the (largely) young wide-boy bankers and city types with their risky working practices and grotesque bonus culture, not us pensioners.

[Russethouse]

I agree Kathy, getting a mortgage was hard and we paid the highest interest rate for years. Both of us had more than one job, for years.

What concerns me at the moment is the number of youngish people renting on a long term basis. When they retire, who is going to pay this rent? It seems unlikely they will have enough pension so the state will pay.......they will end up being a huge burden on those working at that time - its like a time bomb

[idun]

Well it is alarmingly simple. House prices will basically have to crash, or slowly reduce to reasonable levels, as per when I was young, three times annual salary.

And then people will buy again, somewhere to live, and nothing else.

 

And rents'll have to come down to an amount people can afford. If they cannot pay, then they cannot rent and then the property owners will have no income and to get income will have to reduce their rents. Is this really rocket science? I didn't think it was more than very simplistic sums, with good social consequences.

 

France's house prices, well in our region were comparible to London prices when we moved there and interest rates were killers 17-18% or there abouts. So we certainly paid. Where I lived we never had other than house price rises in line with inflation and salaries all the time I was there, still we were only ever the only anglaise in the village.

 

 

[Rabbie]

[quote user="idun"]

Well it is alarmingly simple. House prices will basically have to crash, or slowly reduce to reasonable levels, as per when I was young, three times annual salary. [/quote]This would create massive amounts of negative equity and prevent people from moving to different parts of the country in search of new jobs, A vibrant  economy needs a flexible workforce

[Keni]

Both the OH and I have worked all our lives, I worked my way through college and gave up work due to poor health just a few years ago. We retired early on the OH's pension, that he paid into for 35 years. We have no credit cards and owe no-one, we claim no benefits. We paid into the Uk system from our first days of work and await to see what, if any pension we will receive.

I remember our mortgage repayments around 1989/1990 being at 14% - it meant we had to work harder and maybe not have the holiday we wanted. We did not spend our time in the pub or at nightclubs. If times were hard, we knew we did without - and I'm talking the 90's here! What is the mortgage rate now and what would happen if it went to that scale now I wonder? Who would be expected to re-housed by the government? Our children both work, and would not want to go 'cap in hand' to the government for housing etc.

The bit I find hard to understand is that the disabled and the pensioners being attacked are all people from families - so are those who are doing the 'attacking' so dispossessed of family life that they cannot relate to it - hence the reason for attacking or do they feel 'left out' and this causes them to attack those 'different' from themselves?

[powerdesal]

We are both classic ''baby-boomers'', born 1946 and 1948.

Like KathyF we raised our family with no debts, we saved for what we wanted and did without if we couldn't afford something.

Holidays were spent camping or later on caravanning. Foreign travel was not on the agenda until I got a job overseas.

In my 49 years of working life ( age 16 to 65 ) I was 'on the dole' for approximately 4 weeks between leaving the RAF and getting a job, that's the sum total of benefits. Yes, we got 'family allowance' as is available now. I have paid my taxes and N I as required and now get a basic state pension as per the ''contract'' with the state. My wife does not because her record of contributions were ''lost'' when the govt transferred records from paper to computerised - hence HMRC saying to her ''you don't exist'' !!!!!!

I feel no blame whatsoever for the present state of the UK, because I have paid as required and served my country.

The 'I want it all and I want it now' generation are to blame for the debts they incurred, no-one forced them to borrow money and live beyond their means.

[AnOther]

Like others we worked hard and paid our way, we both left school at 16 with not GCE between us and I left home - such as it was - on the same day, so we feel no particular responsibility for the mess the UK economy is in. Apart from the family allowance neither of us has ever claimed a single penny in state benefits either.

We never felt  the need to have the latest registration numbered car sitting on the drive nor have the biggest flat screen TV on the street even after I'd started working overseas and earning a tax free substantial salary. The most expensive car I have ever bought is the one I have now and that was £7k.

The current generation don't seem to have a clue when it comes to living within their means. Some of the guys I used to work with offshore were up to their eyes in debt despite salaries starting at £35k+ even for the more menial of jobs such as deck crew and cabin steward. Didn't stop them buying flashy cars every 6 months and going on holiday 4 or 5 times a year though whilst at the same time turning down a company pension scheme which contributed 5% of their salary provided they did the same.

[idun]

Keni, if you think that I am dispossessed of family life, I'm not. I would rather like a three bed semi to be around £100k and all the young be able to afford one, that is caring about families, not saying I must have a huge pension because I paid in. In France one pays in a lot, in fact a lot more than in the UK as a sort of insurance of having something in old age rather than a right to a big amount. AND there is no 20%/25% of the pot, or whatever it is, tax free which I do not understand and never ever will.

 

I have got the picture as always. Everyone is hard working and deserves in their old age a pension far and above a current working wage, that the young are expected to keep their families with. And as always am non plussed by such arguments. I have been listening to 'money' arguments since the late 80's when every one including the most reasonable of hard working people got 'devil' eyes all a gleaming, the property market wot did it, and telling me that one 'had to buy!!!!!' and that the prices would always go up. For me, they had lost their reason, well it could have been halted by sensible banks and building societies, but didn't halt it.  And then there were those I know, who did not move at the time and were 'price watching', seeing their property going up and up and up and gloating.

When I say reasonable people, I mean really moral reasonable people, those who do much good in their communities as well as being hard working. How could  they be infected too with the madness and yet they were.

 

The current generation? well they did a lovely job at the Olympics incidentally. Lack of education really isn't it, not handling money properly, or maybe that atmosphere of greed that pervaded their young lives from every single angle, has had it's effect. And I could say that the banks, loan companies and credit card companies, should perhaps, put the brakes on too.  Remember I spent most of my adult life in France, where every institution we dealt with would not let us have more than 33% of income on habitation and loans and often their limit was 30%. One gets used to it, when that is the status quo.

 

Negative equity? Well I reckon that at some point when my generation is popping it's clogs regularly, then house prices are going to fall a lot. It is just the when, and if they do fall, there will also be a lot of people that will be able to afford to buy at reasonable prices and no longer rent....... but apparently, they don't count for much in the grand scheme, if I have understood the basics of this thread. The thing is, when this happens, all those who are still clinging to the big prices, will have overpaid and be in negative equity. It is bound to happen, I just wonder when.

 

[NormanH]

"deserves in their old age a pension far and above a current working wage"

The OAP is £107.45 a week.

This is what is paid out of the taxes mentioned in the article.

Hardly a 'Lavish pension pot'

I believe that occupational pensions are paid for by the contributions of current workers which will in turn give the right to a future pension, just as the contributions of those now drawing their pensions paid for a preceding generation, but these contributions are not taxes.