Is this HMRC's idea of fun?

[Araucaria]

I received an ominous brown envelope from HMRC yesterday - the first time they had written to me for more than four years. Inside were four pages: two said they were a "P800 Tax Calculation" for 2011-12, and the other two were notes headed "Understanding your P800 Tax Calculation".

It said I had underpaid tax by £1700.

The tax calculation was a marvel of simplicity. I owed no tax for 2011/12 itself, but there was an "other adjustment" of £1700. The bottom line showed this amount as "tax underpaid". The second sheet of the P800 informed me that "this calculation includes an underpayment for an earlier year". And that was it. There was no suggestion which earlier year this might be, or how I had got an underpayment of UK tax which I haven't been paying for more than four years now. In fact there were no explanations at all.

I rang the HMRC office. After the usual wait for the phone to be answered and lengthy interrogation ("for security purposes") about my personal details I was told that this was an underpayment from my self-assessment return for 2005/6 (the year I retired). So I asked why it hadn't been collected earlier. After some shuffling of papers (OK, tapping at a computer keyboard) the HMRC woman told me that it should have been collected through my coding for 2007/8. So I asked why it hadn't been. After another long delay I was told that in fact it had been collected in 2007/8 and that I would be sent a letter deleting the "underpayment".

Would I get an apology, or an explanation of how this had happened? "I am sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you" she said, sounding anything but sorry: the letter was "automatically generated". And that's it. Oh, and it will be up to 5 weeks before I get written confirmation ("that's how long it takes"), but no apology or explanation beyond blaming the computer.

Is it worth writing to complain? Or do they simply have an extra-large size wastepaper basket for letter of complaint now?

[Tancrède]

[quote user="Araucaria"]I received an ominous brown envelope from HMRC yesterday - the first time they had written to me for more than four years. [/quote]

Snap !   -  mine arrived last week, and was for an alleged underpayment in 2004.  The explanations were equally unsatisfactory…

[NickP]

Trying to do my bit for the environment  by saving paper etc. I decided to do my tax return on line, My self; and my financial adviser who is also my wife of course, sat in front of the 'puter and away we went filling in all the box's asked for. Pressed the calculate button and it said you owe us another £3500, I nearly fainted and when I'd recovered said " right delete everything". We then filled out the paper form, same questions same answers, posted it off. Yesterday got a letter from the Newcastle office saying you owe us 67 pence. [:)]

[mint]

Ignore everything and sit tight.

During the course of the last year, I received several "communications", some more threatening than others, adding up fines I had racked up by being late with my tax returns.

This was in spite of phone calls and letters to them explaining that I have been tax resident in France since 2007 and that I have now removed all my capital from the UK.  I even gave them my new address; stupid, I know, because they then started writing to the new address and said I owed £900 in upaid fines.

When I rang up, the woman said I had to "appeal" against the fines!  What, I said, appeal against fines I had not incurred as I was no longer a UK taxpayer?  Oh yes, we have indeed now received your letter explaining why you no longer fill in tax returns but you still need to appeal against the fines.

Within days, a letter arrived saying that I no longer needed to fill in tax returns and that, if I were to receive one this year, I was to ignore it.

Then, a few days later, a letter saying that my appeal against my non-existent fines has been accepted (roll eyes).

That's why I say "ignore everything"...as long as you owe nothing, they can't demand any money from you, no matter how many threats they use.

Oh and don't expect an apology!

I have a personal suspicion as to why these letters are "generated".  I suspect that they have targets of, for example, 1 million letters (oh, at least that number) to be sent in the month of September, chasing people up.  They don't really care about the results or indeed the cost of sending the letters.  As long as they reach their "target" of x number of letters, the staff all get a bonus[+o(]

[Rabbie]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

I have a personal suspicion as to why these letters are "generated".  I suspect that they have targets of, for example, 1 million letters (oh, at least that number) to be sent in the month of September, chasing people up.  They don't really care about the results or indeed the cost of sending the letters.  As long as they reach their "target" of x number of letters, the staff all get a bonus[+o(]

[/quote]And I am sure Mr Osbourne gets an extra round of applause at the Tory Conference for his efforts to reduce tax for the rich by chasing up people with much lower incomes who don't actually owe any tax. I don't think it is coincidence that they were chasing the OP over alleged under payment in 2004-05 as a lot of people don't keep their records longer than the 7 years you are required by law to do.

[nomoss]

"Is this HMRC's idea of fun?"

No. They are no different from similar organisations in most other countries. It is a function of amassing ridiculous amounts of data and employing people of marginal competence and even less enthusiasm to handle it.

Many years ago I was privileged to study under a certain Professor Williams, and even by then someone had coined the phrase "Rubbish in, rubbish out". (They didn't say garbage in England in those days)

[Quillan]

[quote user="Araucaria"] "I am sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you"

[/quote]

I think you did well to get that to be honest. Having proved I had told them I was paying tax in France (I kept the receipt for the registered letter) after them sending me three years worth of fines (with interest) for not completing a UK tax form all I got was a very condescending letter telling me that they "letting me off on this occasion" and that should my tax affairs change I am to notify them immediately.

On the other hand when the Tresor Public wrote me a nasty letter I asked for an appointment to see them only to be told I should write instead. I stuck to my guns, got a meeting, turned up, went through it all and got the same treatment as you but face to face even though yet again it was not my problem. My conclusion, doesn't matter where you live they are always the same.

[AnOther]

In preparation for my retirement in April this year in April 2011 I arranged with HMRC to adjust my tax code such that the estimated tax due on my benefits in kind for the year 2011/2012 would be taken into account in advance in my PAYE leaving me with no actual bill to pay just a final +/- adjustment when the numbers finally came through on my P11D.

A couple of months ago I got the ubiquitous brown envelope telling me that I owed some £1900 both on my P11D and from a previous unspecified tax year. A phone call elicited the information that they reckoned I owed this money from a couple of years back it also revealed that I had not been getting the correct tax relief on my pension contributions meaning that they in turn owed me money.

I though that we could sort it out on the phone but no, when it became apparent that the sum in my favour was going to exceed £2000 (ignoring the fact that I allegedly owed them £1900!) I was told that because of that I would have to write in and make a claim which I did giving them all the information they had said I needed to provide only to be rewarded with another brown envelope asking for more.

Let's see what they come up with next !

[Quillan]

Of course none of these 'brown' envelopes that thousands of people are receiving have nothing to do with the government desperately trying to find some cash to help the current financial situation. Seems to me they have flogged the family silver, given away the family gold, raided the pension piggy bank and are lifting up the carpets to see if they can find the odd coin or two.

[AnOther]

For balance perhaps I should mention that they sent 'er indoors a cheque for over £3k without so much as her asking.

She had cashed in a trivial pension last year, paying UK tax on the proceeds, but had to wait for the end of the 2011-2012 tax year to reclaim it however, before she had really thought about it, much less worked up the stamina to do battle with HMRC, the cheque for the refund just turned up - in a brown envelope of course !

[Russethouse]

Seems to me they have flogged the family silver, given away the family gold, raided the pension piggy bank and are lifting up the carpets to see if they can find the odd coin or two.

Think you'll find that was the last lot! [:)]

My daughter got a refund of £500 + without asking too, and no idea of what she did or didn't do to warrant it,  in a brown enveope