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Form 3916 and no further.......


mint
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I have come to an impasse, no further progress possible.

Just thought the end was in sight having spent ages filling in all the foreign account details, one page per account and, just as I was heaving a sigh of relief when.....there it is...the dead end sign[:@]

Fill in the details of your foreign assurance vie or similar financial products.  Neither of us have anything remotely like this stuff so couldn't cocher anyone's name.

However, the form now assumes a life of its own....you fill in details of your asurance vie or you do not leave étape 3 and you go not get to finish[:-))]

Please somebody, tell me what to do or at least tell me if you have also encountered this obstacle and how you overcame it?

Thank you.

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Mint, 

I put in what details I had .. I do have papers for them all, but couldn't fill in all the fields .. I know, a most frustrating thing.  And if you make a mistake, and then need to go back and correct it, you have to scroll through every one (and between us we have 10 bank accounts, savings accounts and an AV outside France!).  Nor will it let you move on if you do not fill the fields they deem necessary.   Try putting gibberish in and see if that helps.  You can always correct it later ..

If your AV is held in France you do not need to put anything in, they are known to the authorities.  So only foreign  held bank/ savings accounts and foreign AV's.

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That's the thing, Judith, no problem filling in the bank accounts, National Savings, etc but no AV outside France, none inside France either come to that.  I think I will email the impôts using my secure messagerie. 

It's them that err.... need to think outside the blasted BOX?[:)]

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Did you check box 8TT on 2042 by mistake? Contrats d’assurance-vie souscrits à l’étranger Joignez la liste des contrats ..8TT

which is next to 8UU Comptes ouverts, détenus, utilisés ou clos à l’étranger Joignez la déclaration no 3916 – 3916 bis ou la liste des comptes sur papier libre ...

checking 8TT will result in you needed to add the information on assurance vie on 3916
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Mint,

Pomme is probably correct, it can happen easily .. I ticked the wrong box in 7U .. first time.  This year I had to put in all the bank accounts again .. and before you start it asks you how many you need to put in ..so I did, and then I realised that I had forgotten some plus one that I had added last year wasn't there (the outside France AV in fact) so I found that out the hard way .. you can supprimer those you put in error, and add those you need to, but it is still a tedious way of doing it ..

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Having to complete form 3916 is an exception this year due to the requirement to add more information and digital currency accounts.

Hopefully next year it will be back to the old system of just making additions/deletions and accepting all the others.
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Thank you so much, pomme, for coming to the rescue[:)]

I will go back and untick the offending box 8TT if that's what I have done.  And yes, I agree with your answer to Judith; there is a note to say that for this year, exceptionally, blah, blah.  I was glad of that because it was a bind looking up all the account numbers plus I haven't the foggiest when bank accounts were open, well over 40 years ago, I would imagine.

Thanks again for your help.....gratefully appreciated...[:)]

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Déclaration par un résident d'un compte ouvert, détenu ou clos à

l'étranger (compte bancaire ou compte d'actifs numériques) ou d'un

contrat d'assurance-vie souscrit hors de France en 2020

There, pomme, these are the exact words in the annexe 3916.  As explained, I have duly filled in all the bank accounts.  Then the form about an assurance vie....nowhere to put we don't have one and I did not tick either of our names.  Also, I did NOT tick box 8TT so it had nothing to do with me ticking any wrong box.

I sent them a message yesterday, so far not a dicky bird[6]

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 Mint,

I managed to find an old 3196 form about 2016, whch meant I could manage the opening dates, except for those I had forgotten and I managed to find the info in the accounts as they are newer (mainly savings ones).  Else I too would have to guess.  I suspect that as long as you put a date in it won't matter if it is actually quite correct!  I got a street name wrong .. correct on another one, and it was not picked up.

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The problem is not with the bank accounts.  I have filled all those in.  Once all the accounts were done, I came to the another screen that asks for the titulaire of any assurance vie hors France.

I have left the boxes next to our 2 names blank.  As explained, we do not have assurance vies.  I tried to press suivant but the notice keeps coming up to say I have not indicated which of us has an assurance vie.  I see this evening from my messagerie that my message has been sent to Nontron!!  Never had anything to do with Nontron.  All previous messages were answered in Ribérac or Périgueux, so I am more frustrated and weary than ever.

Good job I have a relatively free week this week, ie no doctor's RVs; otherwise I don't know what I would do.  Might have to go and queue up at the tax office if no message comes back.

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Mint: can you go back to the first page of 3916 online where you have COMPTES DÉCLARÉS and need to state how many at the bottom of the page "Combien d'autres comptes ou contrats d'assurance-vie hors de France souhaitez-vous déclarer ?"

What happens if you reduce the number you put in by one? I wonder whether it is displaying the extra page you don't need because the number you have put in is one more than the number of pages you need? It is possible, since you are completing 3916, it assumes you need one page so you need to put in one less than the total number of pages you want. ("How many OTHER accounts or life insurance contracts outside France do you wish to declare?")
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Pomme, I am throwing in the sponge.  Tried ringing my local office, my departmental office, my regional office.  They all seem to be closed exceptionellement until next week.

Tried sending another message through my messagerie but all it said was that, on account of a technical error, the message could not be sent and would I re-try later?

Will now try to enjoy my birthday and the weekend even though the weather is rubbish and live again to re-try next week.  Thanks again for all your efforts.

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One last thought. Fill in the page with a bank account - I doubt it checks the contents. Hopefully it won't create another blank page. Then go back to that first 3916 page which lists them all and delete that last account page.

Have an enjoyable birthday.
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I thought that was an ingenious suggestion, pomme.

So I tried and confirmed all the bank accounts all over again.  And then, I pretended to fill in an assurance vie contract.  But it got complicated when it asked what I was insured against.  I wrote Death, yes, and made up a date when it was supposed to have started.  But the questions went on, how long does it last, and what are your vital statistics....well, actually not the last one but my powers of inventiveness did not extend to filling a whole page of lies in a credible manner because I have no knowledge of these assurance vies.

Have to do your research first if you are going to make up a load of ****?[:D]

Worth a try though, might have worked if I had half of Boris Johnson's inventiveness[:P]

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Mint,
I ignored almost al the questions like that on the AV form .. no idea what to say and I'ven idea what I said to what it was for .. it accepted it .. so ignore what you don't know and if there is something it really needs and you have forgotten, like I forgot to tick whether it was a bank account or an AV, it stops you, so try it ... it needs a name, what type of account and a number, add etc .. but the add can be incomplete ' cos mine were!

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Do read the pop-up warning you that PayPal is considered to be a foreign bank account unless it is attached to a French bank account. Your PayPal account number can be retrieved by clicking on  'download your data' under the tab 'manage your data'. The fine for not declaring a foreign bank account is €1500,- per account.

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Talk about adding insult to injury!

Today, I went to the local tax office and it was closed despite the fact I called during supposed "opening" hours.  Rang them for outside the door and the recorded message referred me to the Nontron office.  Not only is this Nontron office miles away, it also did not answer the phone.

Came home and looked at my messagerie.  I had sent them 2 messages, one to explain the problem and the second to ask for a RV as they hadn't replied to message one.  Sure enough, there were 2 answers. The answers were totally unhelpful because they both accused me of having ticked box 8TT "vous avez dû....".  Well, wouldn't I have known whether I ticked that blasted box?  The second message went on to say that they were unable to give me a RV and that if I needed further help, I would have to send them another message and they would ring me!

I have now wondered whether I could print out all the forms and refill by hand and send them off with an explanatory note?  Is that possible?  Pomme, may I prevail on your patience yet again?

I don't want to do this but am keeping it up my sleeve in case I get no further with the foncs.

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Mint: I'm not sure what else to suggest regarding the online version except for the following:

Last year there was a bug in the system (it was later corrected) with an unwanted form (2041E) appearing and persisting even with the necessary 8SH unticked. The only way to be sure of getting rid of it at first by completely clearing the cache and cookies (probably overkill but it worked). So it was necessary to untick 8SH, exit the tax forms, log out of www.impots.gouv.fr completely, close all the web browser tabs, delete all browsing data (depends on browser, usually under Tools) and then reboot the PC. Then 8SH could be ticked without the 2041E form appearing!

If you decide to try a similar cache clearing exercise as that, I would suggest you go to the first 3916 page where all accounts are listed and delete them all (sorry!) Hopefully that would help to get rid of all problematic 3916 references.

After you have done the reboot and logged back in, I think it should be possible to add an account at a time to 3916 as was suggested earlier?

If it does come to needing to submit paper versions the deadline for them is Thursday 20 May this week!

It is possible to download and print the forms. 2042 (2042C is on the same page), 2047, 3916:

https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/formulaire/2042/declaration-des-revenus

https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/formulaire/2047/declaration-des-revenus-encaisses-letranger

https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/formulaire/3916/declaration-par-un-resident-dun-compte-letranger-ou-dun-contrat-de-capitalisation-ou

You might want to add a printout of the first couple of online 2042 pages which contain your name, account number, etc rather than copying all the information? And send a message to the tax office explaining why you are sending the paper copy.
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