Jump to content

Savile: the Blame Culture


Gardian
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hard to see how Ted Heath was responsible when it was a Labour party motion, by definition if he was responsible so to was every MP that voted in its favour. The difference between Ted Heath and Jimmy Savile is that as far as I am aware there are not nearly 300 people complaining that Ted Heath took advantage of them, in fact I can't remember one complaint, neither was there any sign of a 'partner'' coming out of the woodwork when he passed away. Like it not many of the statements given independently of each other regarding Savile and by people who had no knowledge of each other either, have enough common factors that the authorities believe there is a case, it has long ceased to be conjecture IMHO. As for your last comment, I wonder just what you are saying, better for a man to behave inappropriatly with an under age girl than for him to behave badly with a boy? Choice!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 100
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The vote for lowering the age of consent from 18 to 16 for homosexuals took place on the 10th Feb 2000 (became law in 2001) and was sponsored by the then PM Tony Blair. The reason for the vote was to bring the UK in line with EU law. The vote was a 'free' vote and there were 263 votes for and 102 votes against so I am sorry but Heath was not responsible for the law coming in to effect. Even if he abstained the law still would have passed but for you to effectively accuse Heath of pushing the law through just to satisfy he unproved homosexual tendencies is total and utter rubbish. There is no proof, other than hearsay, that Heath was ever a homosexual or pedophile at this moment in time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Quillan"]

The vote for lowering the age of consent from 18 to 16 for homosexuals took place on the 10th Feb 2000 (became law in 2001) and was sponsored by the then PM Tony Blair. The reason for the vote was to bring the UK in line with EU law. The vote was a 'free' vote and there were 263 votes for and 102 votes against so I am sorry but Heath was not responsible for the law coming in to effect. Even if he abstained the law still would have passed but for you to effectively accuse Heath of pushing the law through just to satisfy he unproved homosexual tendencies is total and utter rubbish. There is no proof, other than hearsay, that Heath was ever a homosexual or pedophile at this moment in time.

[/quote]

As Heath was pro EU (he took us in) would it not be appropriate, irrespective of sexual leanings, for him to vote to bring the UK in to line with the EU?

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Théière"][quote user="Quillan"]

Then there are issues about John Peel (R1 DJ) for example having a sexual affair with a 15 year old and why the BBC are to remove his name from a wing of their offices. [/quote]

Hmm, a very different era caused again by the promiscuity of your generation, oh and that sweet little thing who had sex several times with John Peel (thinks that was nice must see John again soon) was at a Black Sabbath concert not a Sunday school bible reading class.

Wasn't that long ago homosexuals were locked up in prison now time has moved as have viewpoints. Hindsight such a wonderful thing. 

[/quote]

She was 15 years old. It take two and the 'adult' is responsible for ensuring that they are not having under age sex willing or otherwise. I believe the 'affair' lasted three months or more and the girl was forced to have an abortion. Not exactly behaving responsibly, there are such things as condoms.

[/quote]

Not condoning Savile or Peel for having sex with someone underage (even in death they should be knocked off of their pedestals) but how does this contrast with underage boys signing up to fight in WWI? The recruiting staff knew some were underage but turned a blind eye. Some of their fates were far worse than having intercourse below the age of 16....and as has been said the age of consent is 15 in Spain, are the Spainish different to the British in sexual maturity?

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul in reply to your two posts.

Heath probably did vote because of the EU but none of us knows what was going through his mind and unfortunately he is no longer around to ask.

The age of consent in the UK was and still is 16 and that's what counts. I believe Wymann couldn't sleep in the same bedroom as his 'wife' when they came to the UK.

Not just WW1 either, many young boys joined the Merchant Navy during WW2 and were killed in the Atlantic. Did the people signing them up turn a blind eye or did the boys use forged documents not that I would know what they would have had to show their age, birth certificate perhaps and many back then didn't have one, I simply don't know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="PaulT"]

Not condoning Savile or Peel for having sex with someone underage (even in death they should be knocked off of their pedestals) but how does this contrast with underage boys signing up to fight in WWI? The recruiting staff knew some were underage but turned a blind eye. Some of their fates were far worse than having intercourse below the age of 16....and as has been said the age of consent is 15 in Spain, are the Spainish different to the British in sexual maturity?

Paul

[/quote]

That was me saying that so I think I now need to correct myself.  Actually the age of consent in Spain is thirteen![:-))]At least that's what the poll's about......

Someone who knows these things better than I do kindly pointed this out to me:

http://www.20minutos.es/encuesta/4872/0/0/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Quillan"]

 

Not just WW1 either, many young boys joined the Merchant Navy during WW2 and were killed in the Atlantic. Did the people signing them up turn a blind eye or did the boys use forged documents not that I would know what they would have had to show their age, birth certificate perhaps and many back then didn't have one, I simply don't know.

[/quote]From what I heard from my father who ran away from school to join up during WW1 no documentation was required. You just had to make a declaration that you were old enough. Obviously in the jingoistic atmosphere of the time the recruitment people would see what they wanted to see.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course at the time of the first and even the second world war, 15 year olds were treated less as children than now as they would have been working since they were 14. Todays 15 year olds are only part way through their education.

I just cannot think of any good reason why the age of consent in Spain should be 13. A good many of the girls wouldn't even have reached puberty, let alone maturity!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="sweet 17"]

That was me saying that so I think I now need to correct myself.  Actually the age of consent in Spain is thirteen![:-))]At least that's what the poll's about......

Someone who knows these things better than I do kindly pointed this out to me:

http://www.20minutos.es/encuesta/4872/0/0/

[/quote]

Certainly is, you might find the following link interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe .

Seem in the Vatican City there is no age of consent at all, I could make a joke about Catholic priests but better not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="Quillan"]

 

Not just WW1 either, many young boys joined the Merchant Navy during WW2 and were killed in the Atlantic. Did the people signing them up turn a blind eye or did the boys use forged documents not that I would know what they would have had to show their age, birth certificate perhaps and many back then didn't have one, I simply don't know.

[/quote]From what I heard from my father who ran away from school to join up during WW1 no documentation was required. You just had to make a declaration that you were old enough. Obviously in the jingoistic atmosphere of the time the recruitment people would see what they wanted to see.[/quote]

My father tried to sign up for WW2 to be with his older friends, the guy doing the enrolment knew him and his age and sent him back which meant he spent a lot of the war in the UK....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="sweet 17"]

That was me saying that so I think I now need to correct myself.  Actually the age of consent in Spain is thirteen![:-))]At least that's what the poll's about......

Someone who knows these things better than I do kindly pointed this out to me:

http://www.20minutos.es/encuesta/4872/0/0/

[/quote]

Certainly is, you might find the following link interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe .

Seem in the Vatican City there is no age of consent at all, I could make a joke about Catholic priests but better not.

[/quote]

I think you'll find, if you bother to re-read it, the age of consent in Vatican City follows that of Italy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Pommier"]

I just cannot think of any good reason why the age of consent in Spain should be 13. A good many of the girls wouldn't even have reached puberty, let alone maturity!

[/quote]

I believe that it is generally agreed among theologians that the Virgin Mary would have been 13 or 14 at the time of the Annunciation. So what is good enough for God would be good enough for Spain.

The age of menarche has been steadily reducing over the last hundred years or so. It could be argued that girls are biologically mature and possibly possessing strong sex drives earlier than the legal age of consent. It is quite likely that girls would listen to their own bodies rather than to legal dictat. By extending full-time education well into reproductive years may unwittingly encourage girls to experiment with sex as a rebellion against a continued, enforced childhood. This may encourage predatory older men to believe that their own behaviour is justifiable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Clarkkent"][quote user="Pommier"]

I just cannot think of any good reason why the age of consent in Spain should be 13. A good many of the girls wouldn't even have reached puberty, let alone maturity!

[/quote]

I believe that it is generally agreed among theologians that the Virgin Mary would have been 13 or 14 at the time of the Annunciation. So what is good enough for God would be good enough for Spain.

[/quote]

Unfortunately I don't believe what you believe. Unless of course you can provide a link to prove that god actually did or does exist? [:D]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you or I believe or don't believe is kind of a moot point,( I suspect our feelings are pretty much the same on this) the fact is Spain is a strongly Roman Catholic country and their laws will be framed accordingly.

On the other and perhaps a higher power sent Sandy to blow Savile off the front pages....;-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Russethouse"]Hard to see how Ted Heath was responsible when it was a Labour party motion, by definition if he was responsible so to was every MP that voted in its favour. 

 

 I wonder just what you are saying, better for a man to behave inappropriately with an under age girl than for him to behave badly with a boy? Choice![/quote]

Yes RH you are right, every MP who voted in favour was responsible for the law change, some may have had a vested interest some may have been following the EU (why would you want to do that is another matter). They all take responsibility for sweeping changes in law that affect our society, allegedly that's why we vote them into office to do just that, sadly some seem to want to just get their noses in the trough and feather their own nests.

Just to re iterate before we go on, I do not support the vile actions of any of the people perpetrating acts of this nature on what we at least consider minors, the Catholic church can make it's own peace in good time.

I can only say that I would imagine the victims of such un wanted ( People who accompanied Jimmy Savile et al over several months may not be considered in the same way) sex attacks be they male of female must feel violated and degraded and possibly suicidal in much the same way but if you consider the age of teenage mums in Lewisham and indeed John Peels girlfriend, it is at least an anatomically correct orifice. So yes in some small way I do feel that it's worse for a boy.

[quote user="Russethouse"]<> Do you have a reference for that ?[/quote]

[quote user="Théière"]

Yes,

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/46516-former-pm-ted-heath-is-outed

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/10/sir-jimll-fix-it-alright-as-honourable-paedophile-and-provider-in-the-corridors-of-power-2480186.html

http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/20/former-senior-jersey-police-officers-speak-out/

 

Just a matter of time

[/quote]

Just to remind you I just answered RH's question, I didn't write the articles. Don't shoot the messenger!

[:)]

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Théière"]

I can only say that I would imagine the victims of such un wanted ( People who accompanied Jimmy Savile et al over several months may not be considered in the same way) sex attacks be they male of female must feel violated and degraded and possibly suicidal in much the same way but if you consider the age of teenage mums in Lewisham and indeed John Peels girlfriend, it is at least an anatomically correct orifice. So yes in some small way I do feel that it's worse for a boy.

[/quote]

This is something I have always thought too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the Wiki article on age of consent it has this to say about England and Wales:

England and Wales

The age of consent in England and Wales is 16[65] regardless of sexual orientation and/or gender, as specified by the Sexual Offences Act 2003.[66] However, if person A is over the age of 18 and is in a position of trust to person B who is under the age of 18, it is illegal for A to engage in sexual activity with B.

So, in Savile and who knows who else 16 would not seem to be the age at which it was 'alright' but 18

Paul

PS, on BBC Intenret News there is a claim from a porter at Leeds General Infirmary that he would arrive in the early hours with a couple of girls, be given a key to the accommodation block and hand the key back a couple of hours later. Of course the porters would never have mentioned it to anyone else thus no one else in the hospital would have known [;-)]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="ebaynut"]

As it was hallowen last night and we get a few kids trick or treating, I thought I would do a pumpkin, but unfortunately none bothered to knock for some reason.

 

[IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p183/taws6/JimmySaville.jpg[/IMG]

[/quote]1

ebaynut, we ROARED with laughter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...