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Isn't America wonderful


PaulT
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Sorry but I disagree about the poor although I agree with your comment about middle to lower classes.

Firstly the poor only get looked after 'well' if they arrive at a hospital via A&E. Currently visiting a doctor or getting medical aid for long term illness is beyond them financially. It is an urban myth that ambulaces leave accident patients on the street to die if they don't have insurance.

There are around 15% of Americans who don't have, because of cost, medical insurance. People who have medical insurance who become ill have their premimiums increased after treatment or have exclusions in their policies for the illness at renewal. The cost of insurance for females is not in parity with those of men.

Obama care or "The Patient Protection Afordability Act" to give its correct name deals with these and many other issues. The bullet points it primarily addresses are as follows.

• ObamaCare improves the quality of care that Americans receive by providing better preventative and wellness services and raising the standards of the quality of basic health care coverage.

• ObamaCare eliminates pre-existing conditions and gender discrimination meaning no one can be charged more or be dropped from their health insurance coverage for health or gender related reasons!

• ObamaCare gives tens of millions of low-income and middle-income Americans access to quality health care by providing discounts through the Health Insurance Marketplace (also known as a Health Insurance Exchange).

• Although the Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare) was signed into law in 2010, the health care reforms it enacts roll out year by year until 2022. Many of the biggest reforms don't kick in until 2014.

• ObamaCare helps to ensure that health care coverage is available to any legal U.S. resident who cannot otherwise obtain "quality" healthcare through their employer. Your access to health care is no longer in the hands of health insurance companies.

• ObamaCare gives American employers with over 50 full-time employees the choice between providing insurance that meets the standards of ObamaCare or paying a penalty. This penalty helps to offset the cost of employees who aren't covered through their employer to purchase insurance through the public health insurance exchanges instead of using emergency services.

• Employers with less than the equivalent of 25 full-time employees may qualify for tax credits, tax breaks and other assistance for insuring employees through the Health Insurance Marketplace.

• ObamaCare increases consumer protections. These help to protect you from being dropped while sick, denied care due to lifetime limits, denied care for pre-existing conditions, and offers Americans a better legal standing against health insurance companies.

• Unless you make over $200k individual / $250k as a family or small business you are exempt from almost every tax ObamaCare levies.

• ObamaCare requires that all Americans have health insurance either through a private provider or through a state or federally assisted program. If you don't have insurance you must pay a tax equal to 1% of your income in 2014 and 2.5% in 2016.

• ObamaCare expands Medicaid to over 15 million uninsured low-income Americans.

• The new health care law aims to reform the health care industry by cutting out waste, reallocating where government funding goes, fixing what doesn't work, and most of all ensuring health care for Americans.

The group most effected by all this are the insurance companies and the pharmacutical companies who will see the obsceen profits slashed.

Looking from the outside inwards none of these seem unreasonable in this modern age.

The cost of all this is around $430bn per year. Seems like a lot of money well lets put this in to perspective (based on 2012 figures).

Military - $689bn of which only $127bn is spent in the US, the rest has been spent on Iraq, Afghanistan and other conflict areas where America is involved. Clearly by bringing troups home and leaving those countries America has illegaly invaded more than enough money would be made available for Obamacare.

Social Care (pensions) - $773bn

Social Care (other) - $441bn

Interest on countries debt - $220bn which excludes actual reduction in balance.

My sources are to varied to list but I Googled the two phrases "What is Obamacare" and "where does american tax money go". Some figures will vary depending on if you a member of the 'Tea Party' or not so I have tried to use the average of the two.

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When you put it like that, and I am in no way doubting your summary, it's difficult to see why the Republicans are so against it. I heard one Republican (sorry, can't remember which) banging on about it not being 'Fair' to tax paying individuals

I would like to hear more detail of what their arguments are

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[quote user="Pierre ZFP"]

When you put it like that, and I am in no way doubting your summary, it's difficult to see why the Republicans are so against it. I heard one Republican (sorry, can't remember which) banging on about it not being 'Fair' to tax paying individuals

I would like to hear more detail of what their arguments are

[/quote]

Money, its source i.e. who funds them.

Their main argument is that the country can't afford it. In one of the sources it but the US national debt at $11 trillion. It is the rich who have caused this debt to exist not the poor and middle classes (because they never had the money in the first place). It was the rich who made available loans to those that could not afford them and then went round blaming the poor because they took the loans and couldn't pay them back and said "nobody forced them to borrow the money". Well nobody forced them to lend the money either, it was just greed. Lets not forget the rich also insured the poor against none payment so at the end of the day they still got their money back except it came from the tax payer because they, like in the UK, bailed these companies out.

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It is mainly a small section of extreme right wing Republicans called 'The Tea Party' that are so strongly against Obamacare, as they see it as increasing costs for employers and removes freedom of choice in that taking out health insurance becomes compulsory. However, if you are going to prevent health insurance companies precluding cover for those with existing health conditions, or loading premiums due to age, then you have to have the actuarial benefit of as many people young and old being covered, not just the sick and elderly.

The main problem is that many voters do not understand how it works, although once it is fully introduced as it was yesterday even the Republicans admit there is no going back, as like Medicare before once the benefits become better understood and recognised voters will not contemplate its removal.

With increasing numbers of employers in the USA discontinuing the provision of health insurance for their employees and or immediate family members such as spouses and minor children, the numbers of Americans uninsured was sky rocketing, as obtaining private health insurance outside an employer plan in the USA is very expensive or impossible to obtain in you have pre-existing health conditions.

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[quote user="Quillan"]

Sorry but I disagree about the poor although I agree with your comment about middle to lower classes.

Firstly the poor only get looked after 'well' if they arrive at a hospital via A&E. Currently visiting a doctor or getting medical aid for long term illness is beyond them financially. It is an urban myth that ambulaces leave accident patients on the street to die if they don't have insurance.

There are around 15% of Americans who don't have, because of cost, medical insurance. People who have medical insurance who become ill have their premimiums increased after treatment or have exclusions in their policies for the illness at renewal. The cost of insurance for females is not in parity with those of men.

Obama care or "The Patient Protection Afordability Act" to give its correct name deals with these and many other issues. The bullet points it primarily addresses are as follows.

• ObamaCare improves the quality of care that Americans receive by providing better preventative and wellness services and raising the standards of the quality of basic health care coverage.

• ObamaCare eliminates pre-existing conditions and gender discrimination meaning no one can be charged more or be dropped from their health insurance coverage for health or gender related reasons!

• ObamaCare gives tens of millions of low-income and middle-income Americans access to quality health care by providing discounts through the Health Insurance Marketplace (also known as a Health Insurance Exchange).

• Although the Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare) was signed into law in 2010, the health care reforms it enacts roll out year by year until 2022. Many of the biggest reforms don't kick in until 2014.

• ObamaCare helps to ensure that health care coverage is available to any legal U.S. resident who cannot otherwise obtain "quality" healthcare through their employer. Your access to health care is no longer in the hands of health insurance companies.

• ObamaCare gives American employers with over 50 full-time employees the choice between providing insurance that meets the standards of ObamaCare or paying a penalty. This penalty helps to offset the cost of employees who aren't covered through their employer to purchase insurance through the public health insurance exchanges instead of using emergency services.

• Employers with less than the equivalent of 25 full-time employees may qualify for tax credits, tax breaks and other assistance for insuring employees through the Health Insurance Marketplace.

• ObamaCare increases consumer protections. These help to protect you from being dropped while sick, denied care due to lifetime limits, denied care for pre-existing conditions, and offers Americans a better legal standing against health insurance companies.

• Unless you make over $200k individual / $250k as a family or small business you are exempt from almost every tax ObamaCare levies.

• ObamaCare requires that all Americans have health insurance either through a private provider or through a state or federally assisted program. If you don't have insurance you must pay a tax equal to 1% of your income in 2014 and 2.5% in 2016.

• ObamaCare expands Medicaid to over 15 million uninsured low-income Americans.

• The new health care law aims to reform the health care industry by cutting out waste, reallocating where government funding goes, fixing what doesn't work, and most of all ensuring health care for Americans.

The group most effected by all this are the insurance companies and the pharmacutical companies who will see the obsceen profits slashed.

Looking from the outside inwards none of these seem unreasonable in this modern age.

The cost of all this is around $430bn per year. Seems like a lot of money well lets put this in to perspective (based on 2012 figures).

Military - $689bn of which only $127bn is spent in the US, the rest has been spent on Iraq, Afghanistan and other conflict areas where America is involved. Clearly by bringing troups home and leaving those countries America has illegaly invaded more than enough money would be made available for Obamacare.

Social Care (pensions) - $773bn

Social Care (other) - $441bn

Interest on countries debt - $220bn which excludes actual reduction in balance.

My sources are to varied to list but I Googled the two phrases "What is Obamacare" and "where does american tax money go". Some figures will vary depending on if you a member of the 'Tea Party' or not so I have tried to use the average of the two.

[/quote]

Sounds great in theory, but in practice how will it work? Will these cheap insurance plans actually pay out? If so, how much? It's all very well having affordable healthcare if the plans actually do as promised. I don't believe Obamacare comes anywhere near to addressing what needs to be done. I totally agree, what exists now (or before Oct 1st) needed change, I just don't believe this is it.

I also don't believe what is happening in Washington is right either. The decision to go ahead with Obamacare has been approved by congress, and ratified by the supreme court. The minority who are blowing up at this are totally ridiculous and threatens the entire economic situation of the world.

However, is it the right time for Obamacare? If the US can't pay what bills it already has, how will it pay for Obamacare too? Perhaps it is wise to hold off for another year, I don't know.

One thing's for sure, if the US was still under the monarchy the queen would have fired this bunch of pathetic politicians just as she did with the Australian parliament in 1975 (via the governor general).

Interesting and worrying times ahead though.

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[quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"]lol it's not affordable at all.

Been on to get prices etc. Sure the premiums aren't bad, but the deductibles are $1000s.

What a swizz.

No wonder the house is trying to block it.

Forcing people to buy this is wrong.
[/quote]

I will go back to my original post and add - what a sick country the US is if it cannot protect its own people whilst allegedly protecting those in other countries.

If Richard you are right in the above then what chance of getting a decent system in place!

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It's not sick. It's just the way healthcare developed over the years. At first it was an excellent system back in the 50s, but as ever, it was taken advantage of and so on. You're comparing apples and pears.

It will take mountains to change the system. Obama has tried, but failed miserably, and failed to deliver yet again on his promises. Not saying republicans are any better as they have thwarted many attempts.

The federal government has too much power at present. Healthcare should be a state responsibility as the country is too big for a national service. Imagine Europe trying to establish a healthcare system that was consistent in every country. Just wouldn't be possible would it? Imagine the outcry of the English having to pay for the healthcare of the Romanians for example.

I agree that something needs to be done over here regarding healthcare, but Obamacare is not it. Taxpayers are being hit twice (once for their own insurance premiums, and once again for those who don't pay tax). It's an unfair system which isn't affordable.

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Richard, if European countries can provide affordable healthcare for all their citizens why can't the USA do so.  IMO it is the mark of a civilised society that people get the best available healthcare regardless of their financial status
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Ah Michael Moore. Say no more. Extremely left wing, does have some good points here and there, but extremely biased and annoying. He's the left wing version of the tea party.

I don't think I've ever said Americans don't care. Most I have met want some form of universal healthcare. I don't believe Obamacare is it. As I have said before, the costs need to be attacked and brought down. Once they are better managed, then premiums and deductibles will come down, making healthcare affordable to all. Changing the system is a mammoth task though. And again, it should be on a state level, not federally controlled. Kind of similar to Europe.

Thankfully, America will never be a socialist country but it could use some socialist attributes as it already has with medicare and medicaid. Perhaps those two institutions could have been adapted for wider healthcare.

I think the bottom line is that Americans don't trust government. I'm beginning to see why. They truly are incompetent and seem the total opposite to the people. This current lot are the biggest bunch of dickheads I don't think I'd want to trust them with my healthcare.

On a funny note:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/03/need-health-care-coverage-just-dial-1-800-fuckyo-to-reach-obamacares-national-hotline/#ixzz2gi9HTFP1

Coincidence? lol

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PaulT I take it all back. You are completely correct. I wouldn't say sicko though, but incompetent is a far more accurate word.

The whole thing is a massive cock up. You can't get onto the website. They've had 4 years to prepare for this and you can't even get on the website. lol It's a joke.

The real reason there is no social healthcare in America is because people do not trust their own government to run it properly. I truly think that's the bottom line. It's a joke.

But despite all that, I still love living here :)

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Although it is not that far away the Obamacare program has not finished yet.

The allowances for state assistance towards health cover seem quite good i.e. $46k fo a single person and $93.5k for a couple. If you earn that or less the government helps towards healthcare costs. Oamacare should cost individuals between 3% and 9.5% of their income (after assistance). Also the Oamacare insurance has only been available since 1st oct 2013. Richard a list of 'suppliers' can be found here http://verticalize.net/h/healthcare/?results=health&rf=ocf  couldn't get in to the site because I am outside the US.

The problem as I see it is there is a lot of ignorance on behalf of the people BUT that I think is because everything has been made to look more complicated than it actually is. I also suspect that many of the 'tea party' loonies have shares in insurance companies.

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[quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"]PaulT I take it all back. You are completely correct. I wouldn't say sicko though, but incompetent is a far more accurate word.



The real reason there is no social healthcare in America is because people do not trust their own government to run it properly. I truly think that's the bottom line. It's a joke.

[/quote]

No. The real reason is that the insurance companies and medical supplies companies (such as pharmaceuticals) pay very large sums of money into politicians' campaign funds and effectively control the political agenda. "People" believe the propaganda that the compromised politicians spout.

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[quote user="Quillan"]

Although it is not that far away the Obamacare program has not finished yet.

The allowances for state assistance towards health cover seem quite good i.e. $46k fo a single person and $93.5k for a couple. If you earn that or less the government helps towards healthcare costs. Oamacare should cost individuals between 3% and 9.5% of their income (after assistance). Also the Oamacare insurance has only been available since 1st oct 2013. Richard a list of 'suppliers' can be found here http://verticalize.net/h/healthcare/?results=health&rf=ocf  couldn't get in to the site because I am outside the US.

The problem as I see it is there is a lot of ignorance on behalf of the people BUT that I think is because everything has been made to look more complicated than it actually is. I also suspect that many of the 'tea party' loonies have shares in insurance companies.

[/quote]

Q, that's not affordable then. The insurance doesn't cover everything, the deductibles are still extremely high, and most of the decent insurance companies are not in it, so it is quite likely these won't be efficient payers out. Furthermore, if 35 million extra people come on board, and no extra doctors are employed, it's going to be an expensive form of the NHS.

Clarke, seriously, look at Washington right now and tell me you would trust your healthcare with those idiots? All sides are to blame. Obama has instituted this expensive system, but doesn't have the money to see it through.

It might not be so bad if people weren't forced to buy it. But that choice has been taken away now.

Again, imagine if Europe instituted a Europe wide healthcare system. That would be extremely difficult to implement. This is why it should have been left to the States, and not the federal government.

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But the 'decent' companies don't have a choice they have to be in 'it' by Jan 2014.

Just as a matter of interest how much to you pay per month? I have no idea of costs so I am just curious. Does it go up for pre existing conditions? Is there any excess?

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I'm paying about $530 a month for myself and my wife. We have several deductibles based on emergency care, hospitalization and so on. None of those deductibles is above $1500. We're allowed up to $2500 per person in drs visits per year. It's with one of the reputable companies. Prescriptions are not included, but neither of us requires it. Pre existing conditions are not covered until we've been with them for a year, but neither of us have a pre existing condition.

It's not fantastic, but it's not bad either.

I am trying to get on to compare to my plan, but all I've managed to do is basically create an account before the system falls over.

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