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Should 'fat' food be taxed in the UK?


Quillan
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I meant to post this earlier in the week. Following a documentary (Dispatches C4) on Monday about obese people costing the NHS over £5bn a year (the Torygraph says it is over £6bn) which is incidentally the same as smokers should the government tax fatty food at a hyper rate like cigarettes? If a tax of nearly 80% is put on 'fags' then perhaps the same could be put on fatty foods? That way at least they will be paying extra for their healthcare.

Thinking of a previous documentary on obese people flying (in aircraft that is [;-)] ) perhaps they should be banned from public transport or be made to pay for two seats. Two poles sticking up from the ground through which you can pass if your normal, if you can't pass them then you can't travel on public transport or flights. Ban them from restaurants as well, nothing worse to put you off your meal than some morbidly obese person sitting in full view right in front of you on the next table. Infact why not go the whole hog and treat them the same way as smokers?

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OK my comments were made tongue in cheek and not serious suggestions, what I wanted to draw peoples attention to is the cost of obese people to the NHS being the same as, according to the NHS, smokers.

What they didn't say in the documentary was how many of the obese people being treated were obese because of illness rather than those who just stuff their faces and don't exercise.

They talked about putting tax on fizzy drinks a while back because of the sugar and fat content but what about food that contains high levels of fat? People who are obese because of say thyroid problems do not necessarily eat a lot of fatty foods so if they increased tax on these type of foods it would make little difference to them. People on the other hand who don't have any underlying illness but just scoff large quantities of high fat food not only put themselves at risk but get their self inflicted obesity and subsequent illnesses (like heart problems) treated free the same as everyone else on the NHS. By taxing these high fat foods it might not only make them to expensive for these people to eat but may also help in a roundabout way pay for their treatment. On the other hand they keep increasing the tax on cigarettes, booze and car fuel yet it does not stop people from smoking, drinking and driving a car.

As to the issue of the documentary about 'To fat to fly' well if people who have an illness that causes them to be obese have a letter from their doctor saying they were ill and it is not their fault then by all means let them fly and pay the same as 'normal' sized people. If on the other hand they are obese through just ver eating eating the wrong things then perhaps they should pay for the extra seat. I have to say that I flew once with an obese person next to me and it was very uncomfortable (physically) but fortunately it was only a short flight. If it were long haul I would have asked for another seat.

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Q ..........

This is just a smidge off-thread, but may I make one small observation?

Your spelling & grammar have improved enormously!  Are you being coached?

Things went a bit awry in your last paragraph, but hehhhh, a massive improvement on your last dance. [6] 

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Tongue in cheek or not, it's a stupid idea, and one which (unlike obese people) would never fly.

We are a family of four. Three of us are slim. My youngest son is, technically, obese. He knows this, because he's a Food Scientist and as part of his degree course he was tested, under quite rigorous conditions. However, he's incredibly healthy and his body fat isn't "bad" fat (don't ask me how that works, he explained to me at length and I still don't understand).

Considering that he eats (even though he's now left home) incredibly healthily - as do we all - and that, up to the time he left home, he ate exactly the same food as the rest of the family, there's no reason other than his metabolism and his physical make-up for this significant difference.

Now, admittedly, he's not morbidly obese, just a lot bigger than me, his father or his brother (who, until recently, had considerable problems buying jeans that were small enough).

Anyway, that's just an example and not my real point. Which is that taxing food - especially in the current economic climate - would probably not make the fat thinner, but the thin thinner. Especially the economically poor thin. Possibly even the elderly thin.

Years of relegating education about food to a cursory few hours, and a culture of NOT cooking from scratch have left us with a generation (or two) of people who haven't a clue about healthy eating and nutrition. Trying to remedy that situation with a tax is almost the same as getting someone hooked on drugs and then putting the price up. We'll have clandestine cheese sellers standing on street corners next, whispering "Pssst! Wanna buy a Camembert? How about a nice packet of Walker's?"

The tobacco/petrol/booze argument doesn't really stand up well. After all, they are all luxuries. None of us HAVE to smoke, drink or own and drive a car. It's a choice we make. Whereas we all have to eat, and we all have to eat a certain amount of fat. Right now, there are poor and elderly folk who are having to make serious choices about whether to eat, or to heat their homes. Taxing fats - in whatever form they come - is probably a good way to ensure that NHS treatment of obesity-related problems gets pushed off the top spot by treatment of elderly and vulnerable people with malnutrition and hypothermia.

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[quote user="You can call me Betty"]
Years of relegating education about food to a cursory few hours, and a culture of NOT cooking from scratch have left us with a generation (or two) of people who haven't a clue about healthy eating and nutrition. Trying to remedy that situation with a tax is almost the same as getting someone hooked on drugs and then putting the price up.[/quote]

I find myself yet again agreeing with you Betty, education is the way to go. There is also an element of laziness involved, do I prep my veg and cook them or pop down to McDonalds. I also wonder if there is a cultural thing. I notice that whilst there is a certain amount of frozen veg in French supermarkets there is a distinct lack of complete frozen meals (not including pizzas) and that those that are available tend to be diet meals.

There is going to be a couple of programs on UK TV (BBC I think) about living on benefits (that and immigrants seems to be all the rage at the moment). It follows a young couple who are taken to a farm by a charity that picks or digs up vegetables left in fields or rejected by the supermarkets and passes them on to those on a limited budget. Once they have done that they attended a cookery class run by the same charity and shown how to cook they food they have collected. Finally they will be cooking a Christmas meal for people living on the streets.

Having watched some of the raw footage there were two noticeable things. Firstly the 'girlfriend' didn't know potatoes came from the ground and thought it very difficult digging them out and complained a lot about the work involved. Prepping the food to cook was a big problem, after pealing half a dozen potatoes they both complained about it being hard work just as they did about the length of time it took to cook them. The second thing I though was not very nice was the presenters off camera taking the micky out of them because they couldn't peal the potatoes and didn't know what to do with some of the other vegetables. Interestingly they are both vegetarians, the chap was 'normal' but the girl was obese.

You would like to think that these basic skills are being taught in schools and supplemented by their parents but sadly not it appears. As a child I can remember cooking with my mother from time to time and I also did cookery classes after school.

You also said "a generation (or two)" and again you’re right. I don't know if you remember years ago when Jamie Oliver was doing a program about healthy school dinners. On the news there were mothers (the second generation) outside a school taking orders for fish and chips, McDonalds etc then bringing them back and throwing them over the fence to the kids (reminded me of a zoo). The mothers said it was what the kids wanted. Thing is as a child I seldom got what I wanted, I got what I was given, if I didn't like it I went without. Probably why I learnt how to do basic cooking.

 

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[quote user="Quillan"]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Well, well, you have noticed this too; I reckon he is either pis sed or not for once![/quote]

Your not Dick Smith in disguise by any chance. [;-)]

[/quote] Well to join in - it's you're (short for you are) not your (meaning this belongs to you) - and I'm not Dick Smith either
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Why do people still peel potatoes. Don't they know all the goodness is in the skin??

I read on the Grudian that some people were taking fresh food back to the food banks in the UK as they did not have the money to pay for the power to cook them. I posted there that I thought the problem was that they did not know how to cook them, even if they were free.

Nearly all food is fat inducing if eaten if sufficient quantity. except perhaps rabbit and cucumber?
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There are a number of diets that promote the eating of fat and protein to reduce body fat by boosting the ketosis in the body.  Atkins, Ducan etc.

It's sugar/carbohydrates where the danger lies.  Taxing anything is revenue raising, there are people with certain personalities that are given to excess and there are also just big people.

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[quote user="Gardian"]

Q ..........

This is just a smidge off-thread, but may I make one small observation?

Your spelling & grammar have improved enormously!  Are you being coached?

Things went a bit awry in your last paragraph, but hehhhh, a massive improvement on your last dance. [6] 

[/quote]

Has it really?  Can't say I have noticed![:P]

Gardian, I PMed you today.  But please don't check my spelling or my grammar, will you?[:-))]

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Food producers have a part to play too in the consumption of excess fats and sugars.

My OH has diabetes, so checks the amounts of sugar in packaged foods. Often low fat labelled foods contain more sugar than their full fat equivalent. Yoghurt is an example of this.

While fresh food is obviously desirable, it is usually going to be supplemented by canned  or packaged. We can't be saints all the time.

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 Why don't people eat potatoes with the skins on. Well because sometimes it simply is awful with the skins on. How could I make good quality puree or mash with skins on, pas possible!

I watched Masterchef tonight, all that butter and cream ...................delicious.

Maybe the youngsters getting fat is natures way of making sure that they don't live as long as the last two or three generations. [Www]

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[quote user="idun"] Why don't people eat potatoes with the skins on. Well because sometimes it simply is awful with the skins on. How could I make good quality puree or mash with skins on, pas possible!

I watched Masterchef tonight, all that butter and cream ...................delicious.

Maybe the youngsters getting fat is natures way of making sure that they don't live as long as the last two or three generations. [Www]

[/quote]

Is that the case of every cloud having a silver lining, Idun?

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[quote user="idun"] Why don't people eat potatoes with the skins on. Well because sometimes it simply is awful with the skins on. How could I make good quality puree or mash with skins on, pas possible!

I watched Masterchef tonight, all that butter and cream ...................delicious.

Maybe the youngsters getting fat is natures way of making sure that they don't live as long as the last two or three generations. [Www]

[/quote]

When did you last hear a mother say  "Go out and play ? "  Most of us on here are of an age when we spent as children ,most of our time ,running about with other children up and down a street if you were in town or in the fields. Now they take food into their bedrooms stare at a screen and start filling out because mothers think the world outside the door is filled with bogymen .... Very sad state of affairs .

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I don't think I know of any family with school-age children around here or among my friends and acquaintances who hasn't got a trampoline in their garden, as this now appears to be the only form of acceptable recreation for pre-teens. Personally, I can't think of anything more boring, but it seems that it allows the children to stay in the garden and get some exercise without leaving the premises. Glad I didn't spend my childhood trampolining. I'm sure it was once an Olympic sport. I don't think it is now. Pity, as we must have raised a generation of expert, world class exponents by now.

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