Tony Benn

[YCCMB]

Well, if Bob Crow can get a mention, and Thatcher, then I'm rather surprised that nobody's mentioned the sad demise of Tony Benn. Certainly a man of conviction and a proper Socialist. Unlike so many politicians, he did seem to stand fast for his beliefs and not to sway in the wind of public opinion. And, unlike the somewhat mealy-mouthed "tributes" to Bob Crow, you do rather get the impression that politicians of all persuasions had genuine respect for him, even if they fundamentally disagreed with his stance.

[NormanH]

Time after time I found myself agreeing with his analysis, although I am not so sure he had  workable solutions.

[nectarine]

I didn't always agree with his politics but admired his courage of convictions - he certainly wasn't a hypocrite, and his diaries are very good reading. He was certainly never a boring politician.

[mint]

What I liked about him was the way he'd stir things up with that mishievous twinkle in his eye in any discussion programme.  He'd say the most extreme things in his avuncular way and as though no other view than his could possibly be correct.

Above all, I admired the way he gave up his title and went out there and got himself elected.  Can't stand these so-called socialists who are so nauseatingly happy to accept titles and honours, Dame this and Lord that............[:'(] Yuck!

 

[Frecossais]

Yes, I had a lot of time for Tony Benn, he was a true socialist, verging at times on a communist.

Importantly too, he was a really "nice" person, kind and thoughtful, humorous, passionate......

I hope he finds his wife wherever he is.

[Thibault]

Actually, I do think he was a bit of a hypocrite. He married a very wealthy woman and set up trust funds for his children to ensure they benefited from this wealth, all the time preaching socialism to the rest of the population.

I have never been able to get my head around the idea of a 'millionaire socialist', especially those who are very left wing, almost verging on the communist.

[Patf]

He was also a WW2 veteran - volunteered for the RAF when he was 18 in 1943.

[mint]

[quote user="Thibault"]Actually, I do think he was a bit of a hypocrite. He married a very wealthy woman and set up trust funds for his children to ensure they benefited from this wealth, all the time preaching socialism to the rest of the population. I have never been able to get my head around the idea of a 'millionaire socialist', especially those who are very left wing, almost verging on the communist.[/quote]

Thibault, I don't often disagree with you.  However, are you trying to say that socialists are not allowed to fall in love with and marry wealthy women?

Setting up trust funds of course does ensure that the kids do not spend all the money before they are of an age when you could expect that they would have developed some purpose in life and social and personal responsibility.

[Thibault]

Not at all, Sweet, but I find it hard to put any faith in someone who pontificates all the time about socialism, whilst protecting the wealth of their own family.

I would have been more impressed if, for example, he had put most of the inherited wealth into a good cause, such as reliving the poverty of the poor.

I thought that socialism wanted to iron out the inequalities in society. If that is what it is all about, then don't you think a 'wealthy' socialist is rather odd?

Even Karl Marx was supported by the wealth generated by his friend Engels, a mill owner - I find that odd too.

But, hey! perhaps that's just me!!

[mint]

No, Thibault, it is not "just you".

It is a fact of life that theories often work only in the imagination and hope and, of course, on paper!

The practicalities, realities of life if you like, are often quite contrary to theories.

I was listening to Alex Salmond today on the Andrew Marr show.  Now, I do find him a smart and wily interviewee and there was no doubt that he explained very well the theoretical aspects of Scottish independence and how that could impact positively on Scottish life.  Also that independence is very "realisable".

Andrew Marr, as with many media types (and, believe me, I do like to listen to him) seemed shallow by comparison to the politician and, IMHO, was well and truly bested.

So, theories and realities do not often meet.

I don't suppose you can avoid being rich or even making money and I personally see nothing wrong with looking after your own wealth in a responsible and legal manner. 

It's this eager acceptance of titles and preferment that really gets under my skin.  I fail to see any circumstance in which a real socialist would accept a title, unless the title is that of Lady Muck or Lord Humbug.

 

[Thibault]

I can accept that people's personal views are often at odds with their personal circumstance - millionaire socialist being a case in point - what I can't stand is them lecturing the rest of us on their ideals while not practising what they preach.

[Frecossais]

Bob Crow was a socialist, lived in local authority accommodation - and got a lot of stick for it.

The problem is that Tony Benn was a socialist in a capitalist country and had a very well-paid job, he did renounce a title in order to practice politics. I don't see anything hypocritical about holding and putting forward socialist ideals, after all he was trying to change the country's ethos.

 

[YCCMB]

It's odd, really. I didn't really take much notice of Tony Benn till I saw him in Michael Moore's "Sicko". However, yesterday, I was listening to Radio 4 in the car, and heard a tribute to him. Among the interesting snippets was a clip which was played from a donkey's years old episode of Any Questions, (or maybe "Does the Team Think")where a "lady" asked (in an RP accent which could have cut through steel) if the panel agreed that it was important and necessary for the country to have a "class system". Mr. B ripped her a new one with consummate skill, quoting Churchill, I think, and saying that what was necessary was for us to have a country where (and I forget the exact words, so am paraphrasing) there were barriers to prevent people being unable to achieve their potential, but no barriers to prevent them succeeding.

There was also a clip where he spoke about the need for people to be able to purchase their own homes, and expressed the opinion that people living in council accommodation should have the right to purchase their homes, using 100% mortgages if necessary. I believe that ultimately one Margaret Hilda Thatcher obliged.

So.. visionary, hypocrite, whatever. I think on balance he had the courage of a great many more of his convictions, whether people liked them (or him) or not, than many of his contemporaries.

And I guess I did like the story that he negotiated with the local council to acquire (for £10) the park bench upon which he proposed to his wife.

[Rabbie]

In the 1970s my sister was catering manager at the NCB HQ in Scotland. Among her duties was providing lunch for visiting signatories and politicians. The only two who took the trouble to thank the staff afterwards were TB(Energy Secretary at the time) and a communist trade union leader (not Scargill). No other politician could be bothered to do this so I think he was sincere in his beliefs even if I did not agree with him on many issues.

[YCCMB]

Mick McGahey?

[Rabbie]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]Mick McGahey?

[/quote]Thanks for jogging my memory. Yes it was Mick McG who also thanked the staff.

[woolybanana]

Apparently he is going to lie in state in the Abbey. What a shame that a no achieving politician should get this honour, though perhaps it might have been acceptable and appropriate if he had been laid out in the local Coop Hall!

Great Bobo in His Bucket, they will offer the honour to the Kardashians next.