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Land of milk and honey


PaulT
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LindaL and PaulT.

A population that has on average only two chidren per couple (cant use family these days) will not be stable it will still grow massively unless the couple have the two children  and drop dead immediately, hence my flippant comment about one child at minimum 40 years of age, I realise that the singles and childless families alter the balance a bit.

My Stepmother had had 5 children when she was very Young (she married my father in her 40's and they didnt have children) Iher children all had around 5 kids themselves also very Young, the next generation maybe 4 each and the one after I have lost count but I think they are even more prolific given the benefits system. I think she has just turned 80 and she is now responsible at a conservative estimate for around 400 descendants of which maybe a handfull are working and contributing to society. Its possible that there is even another generation in the offing as we speak [:-))]

Lets say that they all stuck to 2 children and reproduced at around 20 years of age, that would still be 16 descendants plus the original couple, better but still a population increase of 16 times (maybe its 8) in 80 years which is the current life expectancy.

Having 2 children meaning you only replace yourself is a myth, in fact if we wanted to keep the population static we should only give an autorisation to have a child when a relative dies but the western world economy for the last 100 years has been based on increasing demand by increasing the population regardless of the diminishin finite resources of this planet.

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Except in France and many other EU member states the council would tell you to rugger off.

I don't understand.

There are plenty of British immigrants in France claiming benefits for which they have never contributed, including some working on the black.

Such benefits include the APL

AAH

Family Allowance Allocation familiale

Relief from paying taxe d'habitation

CMU C

I know of a couple of British immigrants who get the AAH, the  CMU C, and relief from taxe d'habitation, so they have no healthcare costs no housing costs and over 700€ a month income supplemented by her working 'on the black'. She speaks a little French him none at all.

Another woman runs a small shop but has AF, APL, and pays no taxes

A third man an ex-lodger of mine works as a plumber 'on the black' for other English immigrants and has the APL and the RSA

In what sense then does France tell them to 'rugger off''?

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In that case Chancer, growth will be finite..ie each person replaces themselves and eventually dies, so overall the population does not increase once the finite number of generations is living. What you highlight is the fact that populations increase in real terms because of increased longevity due to advances in health care.
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Norman, as far as I know some benefits that originate in the UK are paid via the French system. It may appear that the French system is paying them but in reality the money may be coming from the UK. I know of one person who got his dole money here, drawn through the French system but paid for by the UK. It was however a few years ago I admit.

On the other hand Im officially classed as poor in France and pay less than 10 Euros a year tax without cheating the system so perhaps I can claim a few benefits. I mean if people go to the UK and get money why can't I do the same here? [;-)]

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Norman, as far as I know some benefits that originate in the UK are paid

via the French system. It may appear that the French system is paying

them but in reality the money may be coming from the UK. I know of one

person who got his dole money here, drawn through the French system but

paid for by the UK.

That could be the case sometimes but in two of the examples I gave I had to help the people concerned translate the documents, so I know that they are claiming in France from France.[:(]

They are the benefits I linked to above, not something sourced in the UK

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It's a sad fact that, often, the people who are milking the system in France have either:

a) left the UK because they perceived that it was becoming saturated with "immigrants" stealing their jobs and being paid benefits, or

b) assumed that they're "entitled" to French benefits because they're EU citizens and should get whatever they believe is their entitlement, regardless of where they are and how little they've contributed there.

But, in the end, it's OK and indeed "different" because it can't be wrong if you're British, can it?
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Quillan, you have shocked me beyond measure with your post...... surely this should be a lesson to anyone who wants to open an hospitality business in France......... it is hard work and not worth it.

All that ironing and hoovering etc etc etc, washing, bed changing etcetc and you only pay 10€ in tax. Well, I just could not, would not do it.

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[quote user="You can call me Betty"]It's a sad fact that, often, the people who are milking the system in France have either:

a) left the UK because they perceived that it was becoming saturated with "immigrants" stealing their jobs and being paid benefits, or

b) assumed that they're "entitled" to French benefits because they're EU citizens and should get whatever they believe is their entitlement, regardless of where they are and how little they've contributed there.

But, in the end, it's OK and indeed "different" because it can't be wrong if you're British, can it?[/quote]

But they are 'Ex-Pats' not immigrants [:P]

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I think in France there is not the same stigma about getting state assistance. We've never applied for any sort of help..but we automatically get an allowance for the tax d'habitation as our income is low. Never asked for it..just happened automatically after we filed our tax forms.
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I don't know about you, but I thought I knew about income and how much income tax is paid in France and to pay about 10€ would be a joint income of around 28000€ per year, so what 2333€ per month for a couple who are working their socks off. WOW, that seems too much hard work for too little income.

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Not sure if it is a joint income, and in any case its none of our businesses so lets suppose we are talking about my situation instead.

I thought that I would be paying tax at 10% on the first tranche between 6 and 12K Euros, maybe its a lot higher for joint incomes but dont forget that for CDH's that are registered and the OP's is as he recently described an inspection, that there is a 71% abattement for notional costs before a taxable profit and social charges are levied

So using the €28K example that would equate to a turnover of €96000, of course the real profit would be less than that and its also above the current limit for Micro-Bic.

As long as your costs are reasonable with the tcurrent ax bands/cotisations the micro-Bic regime is still attractive.

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[quote user="Chancer"]

Not sure if it is a joint income, and in any case its none of our businesses so lets suppose we are talking about my situation instead.

I thought that I would be paying tax at 10% on the first tranche between 6 and 12K Euros, maybe its a lot higher for joint incomes but dont forget that for CDH's that are registered and the OP's is as he recently described an inspection, that there is a 71% abattement for notional costs before a taxable profit and social charges are levied

So using the €28K example that would equate to a turnover of €96000, of course the real profit would be less than that and its also above the current limit for Micro-Bic.

As long as your costs are reasonable with the tcurrent ax bands/cotisations the micro-Bic regime is still attractive.

[/quote]

You forgot to take out the personal allowances Chancer. We don't pay Tax Habitation either. We keep getting forms for CMU but we bin them as it feels like taking the urine.

Technically whilst our tax bills are just under 10 Euros we pay zero as they don't collect amounts under 10 Euros therefore we have never paid tax in France.

I would like to add that we never planned all this, with the exception of opening the CdH, but simply went to the mayor who arrange for us to see the Tresor Public in our nearest big town who showed us how to fill in the tax form which we have copied (the boxes not the amount of course) for the last 12 years. If it ain't broke don't fix it is what I say and the only time we have been challenged I just showed the letter and the original tax form which he filled in for us, get a French shoulder shrug and that’s the end of it. We were asked if we wanted to join the new scheme when it started so I went back to the guy in the Tresor Public and asked him, he said stay where you are it is a better system for us.

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Chancer, it is my belief that a single person can earn around 15k-16K€'s net and not pay french income tax. Single working people have always paid a lot of tax in France.

Couples,well there may be some way round a married couple not being on the same tax form, but I have no idea how you would do it and I have yet to hear of one married couple who keep their finances competely separate in France.

And I would say that a married couple can earn just under 28000€ net and not pay income tax.

And I have been looking into all this quite recently, as I reckon that my son would be better off if he married now.

Quillan, I have no idea how all this works with your business and income at all. You did bring up the 10€ and if Chancer thought it unfair, then, as I have just said, I have been checking on these figures recently and they were very fresh in my mind (and on the note book in front of me too, as I discussed this with my son).

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Idun, perhaps you have read Chancers comment differently to me but I didn't get that he thought it unfair, he was just explaining how the system works for a CdH.

You have however jumped to one or two assumptions. The first being that our CdH is our only income which it isn't. Secondly you assume we pay all our tax in France but some jobs require people, under UK law, to be taxed in the UK and cannot be taxed in France on this income although it must o course be declared. Thirdly that we run a CdH because we have to which is partly true but not for the reasons you may think.

I have always said in the12 odd years I have been a member of this forum that the reason we 'work' and are in the system in France is because of my health and that the health system in France is far superior to any healthcare (other than private) I have received in the UK. Some have disagreed with me in the past but I can only speak from my own experience. Working, paying tax, which I assumed I would have to do, and paying into the system here in France would ensure I would enter and stay in the French health system which it has. The best thing about running my CdH and it being for my 'beer money' is that I can open and close whenever I want which enables me to do all things I like to do.

I would like to say that I was given very good information and help from an ex forum member (Miki) when I started and the one thing that has always stuck in my mind is that he said "nobody can live solely on the income from a CdH" and he was 100% correct. So you can go figure out what that actually means.

So in my personal case my income is none of your or anyone else’s business apart from the Tresor Public, HMRC and CPAM. All you or anyone else and they need to know is that I pay my way, I hide nothing from them and I always pay whatever is asked of me. It does however allow me to be a little self righteous when it comes to those that blatantly abuse the system because I do not live in a 'glass house'.

Please don’t take offence at the above, I am simply explaining it as it is and no offence was intended.

 

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I've come a  little late to this thread but can I redress the balance about immigrants and scroungers. You wont find confirmation of  this in the Daily Whatever but I assure you it's true.

Some friends rent out properties, one of which is a two bed flat.They've had the same tenant for about three years. Never had any problems over rent with the money hitting their account like clockwork. When anything has ever needed repairing our friend has always been amazed at how spotless the place is kept. Sometimes the man will 'phone up with a little problem and ask if it's OK to put it right himself.

They had a 'phone call a week ago from a very tearful tenant to say that her husband's work had changed with his depot moving 60 miles away (parcel deliveries, white van man etc.) and that they couldn't afford the rent any longer as the cost of his travelling had made doing the job impossible. He refused to claim benefits. They asked to be released from the tenancy agreement immediately but that they had lined up one of their friends who was looking for accomodation, subject, of course, to our friend's agrrement. New tenant interviewed last Saturday and moving in this Friday.

The original tenants are returning to Poland this weekend.

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My FIL has Latvian neighbours. They all work and are really nice people. They quite often offer to run my FIL around, tend his garden and other bits and bobs.

The UK however is not alone in its immigration 'problems'. We have some more Belgians with us and like many from the flemish speaking region they bang on about immigrants, can't hear a word of flemish (or french) in the supermarket queue, sounds familiar.

Mrs Q has a friend who went to America years ago and has four children. She came back to the UK for each birth as it was free. Meanwhile I see in the American press there is quite a bit going on there at the moment to do with immigrants. Apparently, according to poll released in July this year, 1 in 6 Americans blame immigrants for the current problems there, unemployment etc. Bit ironic really when you consider that most Americans are from immigrant families originally.

Meanwhile today I see that Farrage said of Cameron being photographed with blacked up morris dancers earlier this  month that there was absolutely nothing wrong with white people 'blacking up'.

 

 

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Well if what I am reading and seeing on TV these immigrants hanging around in France waiting to get to the UK, getting free houses, healthcare and social payments will finally come to an end. Italy along with other EU countries including the UK are withdrawing their ships that rescue those coming across the Med. Basically to put it in the most simplest terms if these refugee boats that carry these people break down or even sink nobody will rescue them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2810717/Britain-refuses-help-immigrants-adrift-Mediterranean-encourage-flee-North-Africa.html

The readers comments are particularily of interest I thought. Makes me ashamed to be British sometimes.

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[quote user="idun"]Q you win, I now have no idea at all what you are talking about with regards to money, or your B&B.

[/quote]

I didn't know it was a competition.

My income is way above the French minimum and I don't pay any tax in France, not even 10€ and understand what Q is on about. Perhaps you don't understand the tax situation here as well as you think idun.

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My income is way above the French minimum and I don't pay any tax in France, not even 10€

I presume you must be in a couple then.

A single person starts paying at about 6000 after the 10% Reduction

The French Minimum of 1 445,38 euros bruts mensuels would be largely over that..

Most of my (UK) OAP is taxed in France since that  tax-free allowance   has been used up by another small income so the OAP falls into the 5.5 and 14% bands

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[quote user="NormanH"]My income is way above the French minimum and I don't pay any tax in France, not even 10€

I presume you must be in a couple then.

A single person starts paying at about 6000 after the 10% Reduction

The French Minimum of 1 445,38 euros bruts mensuels would be largely over that..

Most of my (UK) OAP is taxed in France since that  tax-free allowance   has been used up by another small income so the OAP falls into the 5.5 and 14% bands

[/quote]

[quote user="Spyder"][quote user="idun"]Q you win, I now have no idea at

all what you are talking about with regards to money, or your B&B.

[/quote]

I didn't know it was a competition.

My

income is way above the French minimum and I don't pay any tax in

France, not even 10€ and understand what Q is on about. Perhaps you

don't understand the tax situation here as well as you think idun.

[/quote]

Spyder,

I understand it perfectly well for people who are employed by

companies, I am solid ground there and as I said, I checked recently, as

I reckon that my son would have some financial advantage if he married

his long term girlfriend. We have even done PAYE in France, it is 'rare', but we have done it and were duly fleeced, because that is how it works.

NH, I have used the impots site simulateur and  found that for a single person earning 15000€ net didn't pay anything, and those that earned 16K€ did. Even when we were doing paper declarations we always used their test page and it was always the amount we would pay.  And since we have had online declarations, have used their simulateur and that too has always been right for us at least.

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