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Land of milk and honey


PaulT
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Watched a programme last night about High Court Bailiffs.

They went to a house to carry out an eviction - there were £5,000 rent arrears. They knocked on the door and this woman answered the door who could not speak English. She went and got her husband who could. He explained that he was a self employed painter and decorator who did not earn enough so the Council paid the rent.

A council official arrived and it was explained that the rent payment had been put on hold because they were investigating whether he was entitled to have his rent paid but the arrears had subsequently been paid.

However, the landlord had applied to the High Court for possession hence the bailiffs being there.

So the man, his wife, their five children (think of the child benefits) and the unborn child, that was due in the next couple of weeks (more child benefits) were duly evicted and rehoused by the council.

Wonder what they tell family members back home, some of whom may well be in Calais at this very time:

'Get yourself over here, they provide you with a house and each kiddie you knock out they give you more money - let France try to beat that'.
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It's a covert plan, everyone who comes to Britain is British and then once again Britain can have an empire and own 4/5ths of the world whilst France will just be France.

Where this chap has made a serious error is being self employed you can't qualify for anything but the child benefit, unemployed you can get lots more and then just work on the black and let Germany and France (where there isn't a black economy) and then even they can have the payout from the UK benefits system AKA our money.

Strewth, anyone got an island I can live on.

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You forgot to mention that the wife, who was about to drop sprog number five any minute, could not even speak English.

Watching the same program I note that you have not mentioned the worthless British youths they evicted from the four story office block who were squatting there, about 80 odd in total. I liked the guy who was dressed like a tramp (and had a big aggressive dog) who said he was a Russian/English translator but could not get any work. No wonder if he turned up for an interview dressed like that. If you were paying attention you might have noticed that the owner of the office block by the way was the same colour as the couple you mentioned. They estimated that it would cost over £100,000 to clean and redecorate the office block.

Likewise you failed to mention the family members who arrived to support the wife of the guy who had run up over £2,800 debt on a hire car and initially threatened the bailiffs with violence unless they left saying there would be a full scale community riot if they didn't.

I do get annoyed because it is the same old, same old, story. Just one incident out of many but the guy is black and an immigrant so it is OK to point him and his family out. I don't see people posting about 'white' British families were either a woman has seven children all by different fathers or the man who has 17 children by about five different women all of which are claiming thousands in benefits. Seems to me these 'immigrants' are not stupid, they look at us and think "I will have some of that". They must be laughing their socks off. The answer is simple, cap benifits at three children and educate people better and treat everyone the same regardless of sex, colour or religion.

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It appears to me that a system of benefit payments based on what people are entitled to in the country they leave and have paid into for years should apply throughout the EU when people move to another EU country . Claims to be made from the home country for bank transfer if entitled and after say five years of paying into the country moved to and working in .....then switch over. All have free movement as per EU rules but knowing what they will be entitled to and where from before they leave.

Now I am sure I am going to be told why it wont work !

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[quote user="Frederick"]It appears to me that a system of benefit payments based on what people are entitled to in the country they leave and have paid into for years should apply throughout the EU when people move to another EU country . Claims to be made from the home country for bank transfer if entitled and after say five years of paying into the country moved to and working in .....then switch over. All have free movement as per EU rules but knowing what they will be entitled to and where from before they leave. Now I am sure I am going to be told why it wont work ![/quote]

The EU movement rules are about going to 'Live and Work' in another member state which is why there are rules on 'inactives' i.e. if you don't put in you can't get out. Only thing is not all countries abide by this and the UK is one of them. It's not the EU's fault it is the UK's fault pure and simple. If you accept that and then want to look for a specific 'target' to aportion blame then look for Tony Blair.

Something for you to read that explains the rules quite well.

A Guide to your rights as an EU citizen

Sorry about the font size.

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I forgot to add that there must be many Brits that abuse the system as well. I know of more than one person who is claiming all sorts of benefits from the UK although they live in France and they are not entitled to them outside the UK. They simply use a family members address back in the UK. One actually told me they could not afford to live in France if they didn't 'cheat' the UK system and they thought they were entitled to their money because lets face it (not my words) "these bloody &*$£'s get of the bannana boat and get it the moment they put foot in the UK so why shouldn't I get the money as well, at least I am British?". Pitiful attitude really and I am sure there are a lot more like her that thinks the same and does the same. One such person recently bought a brand new Merc (A series I admit) in France (LHD) all paid for by the UK tax payer.
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Q - they already had five kids with the sixth on the way.

I did not mention the squatters because they seemed to be yer actual British and the threatening mob seemed to me to have been born in Britain.

As for not getting certain benefits when self employed well, the programme was claiming that he was self employed and having the rent paid for by the local authority.
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[quote user="PaulT"]Q - they already had five kids with the sixth on the way. I did not mention the squatters because they seemed to be yer actual British and the threatening mob seemed to me to have been born in Britain. As for not getting certain benefits when self employed well, the programme was claiming that he was self employed and having the rent paid for by the local authority.[/quote]

I appologise for my error in the number of children involved.

I think for the program the benefits were not of interest as the program was not about that. Simply put they had not paid their rent, they had thousands outstanding in rent and the owner went to the high court to have them evicted. As to the program, well I wouldn't like their job, I don't think I could stay as calm as they appear when dealing with some of these people. On the other hand there ae those one has sympathy with as life has dealt them a bum hand over which they had no control.

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Q I think the big demon of modern times is the ease for people to get in to debt. Credit cards and also the vile payday loan companies that prey on people with no money to start with and then charge several thousand percent annual interest.

One of the ads featured a young couple moaning about their bed and they are then told they can get one today with a loan at huge interest rates.

Perhaps some of the bailiffs shown, if they are actually like they are portrayed in the programme, seem to have compassion towards people - whist they have to do their job not being nasty must make it easier for those involved.

PS the other couple probably have number 7 on the way (:
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Were it my decision I would cap benefits at one child only and impose severe punitive taxation on families or single parents who have any more than the first.

I would roll this out world wide (OK so in my megalomaniac dreams I would need to be the world leader) but even that would not be enough to control the population explosion and the imminent self destruction of mankind unless we start to die 20 or 30 years before we currently do or only have children in our 40's.

Given the current population growth they can only make prédictions 50 to 100 years ahead and they are totally dire, the resources of the planet wont be enought to go around let alone all those people being able to work and purchase those resources.

Meanwhile while Rome burns we continue to pay people not to work and to reward tham for pushing out the maximum number of kids who will probably all do the same themselves.

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Unfortunately, the concept of imposing punitive measures on mothers who give birth to multiple children takes no account of the fathers who fathered such children in the first place. And yes, Chancer, I know you used the term "single parents", but it's mighty difficult for a bloke to become a serial "single parent" on his own. It's easy for him to father a child and walk away though, although I do appreciate that a woman can become pregnant without telling the person who helped her to become so.

I'd hate a "one child" policy..and I speak as an only child. Look to China and some of the terrible and unpleasant consequences of such a policy. Two isn't so unreasonable. Seven is, I agree, off-the-dial crazy.
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It is my firm belief that China would still be in the mire if it had not had the one child policy.

And for all there are terrible things associated with that policy, it is still a billion times better than third world birth control, which is pop'em out, even if there are no ressources and only starvation and hardship.

There is no excuse for over population, we have had proper birth control since I reached puberty, AND yet since then, we have had organisations begging from those of us who took advantage of birth control and only had children we could support to keep those that do not. The money, unimagineable amounts of money that was given to go into education, what education.......... where did the money go? ............and the doctors, well, my comments about what they have done in keeping unsustainable populations alive, are  currently unprintable.

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In 85 I belonged to a club and whilst Live Aid was on there was a collection made. I refused to give on the basis that nothing would change. The money would alleviate suffering for a little time and better fed people would be more inclined to reproduce.

29 years later they are still appealing for donations for the starving children.

?????? perhaps sending condoms instead of money would give a better outcome.
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[quote user="Chancer"]

Meanwhile while Rome burns we continue to pay people not to work and to reward tham for pushing out the maximum number of kids who will probably all do the same themselves.

[/quote]

Unfortunately we already have second generation families that have never worked and have been, like their parents, supported by the state. Some find themselves in this situation through no fault of their own whilst others, well best left unsaid but we should not tar them all with the same brush.

The limiting of family size i.e. number of children is a big issue and needs a lot of discussion and thought. In some ways we need children for they will be the next adults from whom tax will be extracted and we need to tax income to support the retirees and infrastructure. Last year just under 700,000 people officially drew a state pension for the first time and this is expected, even with the recent changes to the pension age, to increase by 15% next year. There are, according to the BBC, around 13M pensioners in the UK and according to the Parliament website they represent a ratio of 1 pensioner to around 3 'workers', this will drop to 2.8 workers by 2020. State pensions equate to around 1/7th of the total tax income per year (according to the Parliament website).

Of course the other side of what I have just quoted is you need to jobs. If you don't have the jobs to put these people into you won' get a tax income from them. The wage for the jobs has to be reasonable as well. According to The Resolution Foundation the UK has seen a massive increase in low paid jobs and there are around 5.2M workers now getting £7.69ph or less, that’s just under £16k per year and you’re not going to be getting very much tax out of them.

I guess what I am saying is we can do without the institutionalised unemployed and large families but we do need good family units that 'grow' children that can take reasonably well paid jobs to pay us miserable old gits our pension. [;-)]

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To be honest, I've visited many. many countries in Africa, and wherever you go you can't move for condoms. In a manner of speaking. They give them away in bush bars, they're readily available in shops and markets...

This one's firmly down to the blokes, too. It's about persuading them to USE them. And I don't mean the main use I've seen a few times in bush bars, which is to make balloon animals.

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[quote user="PaulT"]In 85 I belonged to a club and whilst Live Aid was on there was a collection made. I refused to give on the basis that nothing would change. The money would alleviate suffering for a little time and better fed people would be more inclined to reproduce.

29 years later they are still appealing for donations for the starving children.

?????? perhaps sending condoms instead of money would give a better outcome.[/quote]

No PaulT it is worse as the population has ballooned and do you know what there is another famine in Ethiopia, it was on the news the other night. Population from around 40 million to about a 100 million.

I agree Betty, it is down to the men. HIV and aids still rife in Africa too, never mind other STD's.

As I said, the way I feel about the way Doctors and western medicine have dealt with all this and their interfering is unprintable.

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The problem with the number of children more than an average of two is that over time the population rises dramatically:

1 million couples have on average 3 children means that from 2 million people, 3 million go on to have the next batch of children.

So, in the next round if 3 again there will be 1.5 million couples producing 4.5 million children.

They will become 2.25 million couples and have 6.75 million children.

Adds up doesn't it.

In addition, I have read that some families are in to the third generation of living on the state.
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I think the issue at the moment is that a lot of 'proffesional' people, particlarily women, have either put off having children or simply don't want any because of their career, by daughter being in the latter group. The difference seems to be the narrowing of the number of people drawing pensions and the birth rate which has seen a considerable narrowing over the last 20 to 30 years. One of many reasons why we are seeing the retirment age increase. On the other hand try being 60 (or 55 even) and get a job, some are lucky but most are not.

You comment about third generation unemployed is more than like correct and I am sure I have read the same. That said some just 'breed' with no thought in the impact they are having on their kids and there are others who live in areas where this no employment. The later group is not nessarily their fault. The first step in trying to stop this is education and the next is to stimulate companies to move industry to these regions and create employment.

All in all it is not a quick fix and it is a complicated issue. Some of the large families in Bradford which is particularily highly populated by asians came about because the mill owners bought them over to work in the mills two or three generations ago but the mills have now closed and there is no work. What do you do with these people? You can't exactly "thanks for all your hard work but now the mills are close you can p*ss off back to where you came from".

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[quote user="Quillan"]You can't exactly "thanks for all your hard work but now the mills are close you can p*ss off back to where you came from".[/quote]

Don't see why not, that is generally the attitude I have come across when any company I have been working for has closed. They have made their money and that's nothing to do with you and we've finished now so go and find work elsewhere.  

Oh and just in case you think that's a tad harsh The companies shifted production to India and China

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It's always been the case that population is controlled when people feel economically prosperous..but if you feel that you have no future, that any children you have may not survive until adulthood, etc then you continue to procreate. It's an instinctual Darwinian thing to do with survival of the species. Education and a good standard of living is how you control population. If you look at population growth in the UK and France for example if is currently stable. In fact I think I read somewhere that the current average number of children per woman is below two in many European countries, meaning that the population will decrease. China is currently facing a huge crisis caused by its restrictive policies on population control, in that it is about to face a massive increase in the ageing population, living longer with no family to support them. There could be more over 75s than working age adults soon. If you make it to 85 you have a 1 in 5 chance of having dementia and 4 out of 5 will need some help with daily living, so a huge expense with less and less people to pay for it or to provide the care.
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To be honest, Quillan (and I know a little bit about Bradford and the textile industry, because I studied Textile Technology and French at Bradford University) the vast majority of the Asian population is British Asian, the textile workers having come to the UK in the 1950's. As such, those original migrants haven't so much lost their jobs as retired, and it's their children's children who form the major group within the Asian population. They haven't lost their jobs due to the mill closures because the mill closures largely happened before they were even born!

There are pockets of extreme poverty in Bradford, that's for sure. I lived in Manningham as a student, and parts of that area are extremely deprived today, although other parts are still quite affluent. But Bradford as a whole has a fairly buoyant economy, and it's highly likely that the third generation Asians are contributing just as much to it as any other ethnic group.

Interestingly, Bradford also has a big Polish population: nothing to do with EU migration, but people who remained or came to the UK after WW2. Many of them were very active in the BNP marches in the mid-'70's. Even back then, there were plenty of people around upon whom irony was completely lost.
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[quote user="Théière"]Oh and just in case you think that's a tad harsh The companies shifted production to India and China
[/quote]

Did not Dyson, Wedgewood, Laura Ashley (now MUI Asia), to name the first that come into my head do exactly that making thousands unemployed in the UK and now use child labour (allegedly)?

In making my comment about sending them back many were second generation when the mills closed, They were British by then, had British passports and also married into the community. A play and then film was made on this subject although it was set in Salford (East is East). The history of the East End of London is particularly interesting as it was in the past the first place that immigrants arrived and the history of immigration to that area goes back centuries. Another excellent film from 2007 is called Brick Lane about Bengali immigrants.

When we lived in Docklands we used to go to the (new) Billingsgate Market fish festival every year. There would be a great mix of different nationalities all producing dishes that were based on traditional British fish. After the DDLC ceased to exist and our area came under Newham council we lived in a borough where the traditional ‘white’ population had dropped to around 27%  but to be honest in many ways, with all the cultural diversity, it was a vibrant place to live and in some ways at times we miss it a lot.

I posted a link about requirements of living in another EU state and to be honest I have no problem providing that firstly the migrants keep to the rules like we have had to do in France and that the government accepts them in to UK legislation and ensures those that abuse the rules are ejected from the UK. I also like the national ID card system and the residency cards we used have in France. It would make it a lot easier to find and ‘deport’ those that are not entitled to stay in the UK. Having seen the new Belgium and Dutch ‘smart’ cards that can be read by a reader it minimises the risk of abuse although I do accept that no system is foolproof for those intent on forging these cards but it is pretty hard to do and only the ‘master criminals’ could probably afford such a card.

PS - Thanks for the correction Betty

 

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They knocked on the door and this woman answered the door who could not

speak French. She went and got her husband who could. He explained that

he was a self employed painter and decorator who did not earn enough so

the Council paid the rent.

Sounds just like British immigrants in France [:)]

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[quote user="NormanH"]They knocked on the door and this woman answered the door who could not speak French. She went and got her husband who could. He explained that he was a self employed painter and decorator who did not earn enough so the Council paid the rent.

Sounds just like British immigrants in France [:)]
[/quote]

Except in France and many other EU member states the council would tell you to rugger off.

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