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Gordon Brown on Europe


NormanH
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[quote]Of course, we must tell the truth about the 3 million jobs, 25,000

companies, £200bn of annual exports and £​450bn of inward investment

linked to Europe; and how the “Britzerland”

or Norwegian alternatives (even Norwegians oppose the Norwegian option)

leave us subject to EU rules, but denied a vote in shaping them.[/quote]

And, of course, Mr Brown's statistics must be taken as utter, absolute facts...............from the man who drove Britain to the edge of fiscal disaster and sovereign borrowing levels never ever seen before!

Remember, this is the very same man who promised to "create" over 300,00 new jobs "At a stroke!".

Still, I needed a good larf after today, Norman.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

Finally, I would point you towards your own posting signature comment, viz:

[quote] The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever

that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the

majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish

than sensible.

- Bertrand Russell
[/quote]

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[quote user="brianagain"]I feel that history will judge Gordon Brown more fairly than today's right wing press allow - unlike the current holders of the premiership and chancellor.

[/quote]

I fear history will censure Mr Brown on a number of serious fiscal issues!

Record PSBR and incurring massive Sovereign Debt: and more so since by creating a Boom Economy as never ever before, he was receiving record revenue inflows as well.

Creating an "Independent Bank of England": and then vesting regulatory authority in a new, confused and utterly incompetent and untried and tested government agency: where both Brown and that agency, the FSA, allowed Hard Eddie George and the MPC to lower base rates to the lowest historic level since the early 1950s: and then fail to impose any monetary and lending controls, such as the Special Deposit Regime (The Corset) of the early 1970s (when Barber-Heath created the first post war Boom-Bust economy). The net result was a huge personal debt bubble, which exploded, as bubbles are wont to do: and a house price bubble, yet to unwind.

When George gave evidence to the Select Committee tasked to evaluate the success or otherwise of B of E's independence, (March 2007) he admitted the MPC (Monetary Policy Committee of the B of E) fully realised the risk of triggering an unsecured consumer credit bubble and a house price bubble!

See here:

Brown's so-called "Miracle Economy" was based on slack money, lack of lending regulation and the simple reality this led to an explosive boom in consumer consumption, insane spending on house "Make-Overs" - with a majority of the material being imported and massive imports of Asian junk.

And, of course, this was simply not sustainable: particularly since by 2004, the value of the total UK residential housing stock had reached 66% of the TOTAL wealth of the UK! (Source: ONS). In order to fund the resultant mortgages, the capital had to be imported  (Mainly from the global interbank market) and recycled into MBSs (Mortgage Backed Securities) etc and sold on.

Some damned Chancellor!

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[quote user="Gluestick"][quote]Of course, we must tell the truth about the 3 million jobs, 25,000 companies, £200bn of annual exports and £​450bn of inward investment linked to Europe; and how the “Britzerland” or Norwegian alternatives (even Norwegians oppose the Norwegian option) leave us subject to EU rules, but denied a vote in shaping them.[/quote]

And, of course, Mr Brown's statistics must be taken as utter, absolute facts...............from the man who drove Britain to the edge of fiscal disaster and sovereign borrowing levels never ever seen before!

Remember, this is the very same man who promised to "create" over 300,00 new jobs "At a stroke!".

Still, I needed a good larf after today, Norman.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

Finally, I would point you towards your own posting signature comment, viz:

[quote] The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.
- Bertrand Russell
[/quote]


[/quote]Perhaps you could enlighten us as to which of Mr Brown's statistics are incorrect and what the truth really is. It is certainly a fact that the Norwegian Minister for Europe was very critical recently of the lack of influence that Norway has on EU policies that directly affect it.
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[quote user="Rabbie"]

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to which of Mr Brown's statistics are incorrect and what the truth really is. It is certainly a fact that the Norwegian Minister for Europe was very critical recently of the lack of influence that Norway has on EU policies that directly affect it.[/quote]

When the other thread concerning the EU commenced, I did start to assemble quite a detailed response, Rabbie: however pressure of work and etc, precluded my finishing this.

If I can find the time, then I will try and finalise over the next few days.

Alternatively, of course, you could try researching the relevant data: it is all easily sourced via Google.

The trick is to avoid the expanded half-truths and outright spin of political parties and members and supporters, thereof.

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Oddly enough I thought it was the collapse of Lehman Brothers bank in

the US that triggered the global financial crisis - not Gordon Brown.

In hindsight financial regulation was too lax in the UK; however don’t forget that in 2006 David Cameron was saying 

"The lessons from the City are clear. Low tax. Low regulation.

Meritocracy. Openness. Innovation. These are the keys to success. The

government is wedded to the impulse to over-regulate…"
In other

words he would have preferred even less regulation at the time! With his

running scared of a face-to-face in the coming election debates I doubt

Cameron would have commanded the respect and resolve that Gordon Brown

showed at the time in saving the banks from their own folly.

However, as I said in my earlier post,  in my opinion, I think Gordon Brown’s actions will be judged more fairly in the future - but only time will tell.
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[quote user="Gluestick"][quote user="Rabbie"]

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to which of Mr Brown's statistics are incorrect and what the truth really is. It is certainly a fact that the Norwegian Minister for Europe was very critical recently of the lack of influence that Norway has on EU policies that directly affect it.[/quote]

When the other thread concerning the EU commenced, I did start to assemble quite a detailed response, Rabbie: however pressure of work and etc, precluded my finishing this.

If I can find the time, then I will try and finalise over the next few days.

Alternatively, of course, you could try researching the relevant data: it is all easily sourced via Google.

The trick is to avoid the expanded half-truths and outright spin of political parties and members and supporters, thereof.

[/quote]Glue, with your talent for making allegations and your ability for not answering the question you should be a politician[:D]
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[quote user="brianagain"]Oddly enough I thought it was the collapse of Lehman Brothers bank in

the US that triggered the global financial crisis - not Gordon Brown.

In hindsight financial regulation was too lax in the UK; however don’t forget that in 2006 David Cameron was saying 

"The lessons from the City are clear. Low tax. Low regulation.

Meritocracy. Openness. Innovation. These are the keys to success. The

government is wedded to the impulse to over-regulate…"
In other

words he would have preferred even less regulation at the time! With his

running scared of a face-to-face in the coming election debates I doubt

Cameron would have commanded the respect and resolve that Gordon Brown

showed at the time in saving the banks from their own folly.

However, as I said in my earlier post,  in my opinion, I think Gordon Brown’s actions will be judged more fairly in the future - but only time will tell.[/quote]

It's a populist perspective, Brian, and seized by desperate politicians as a scape goat, whereas the truth lies somewhat deeper.....

"Robert Kuttner, Joseph Stiglitz, Elizabeth Warren, Robert Weissman, Richard D. Wolff and others have tied Glass–Steagall repeal to the late-2000s financial crisis.

Kuttner acknowledged “de facto enroads” before Glass–Steagall “repeal”

but argued the GLBA’s “repeal” had permitted “super-banks” to “re-enact

the same kinds of structural conflicts of interest that were endemic in

the 1920s,” which he characterized as “lending to speculators, packaging

and securitizing credits and then selling them off, wholesale or

retail, and extracting fees at every step along the way.”[47]

Stiglitz argued “the most important consequence of Glass–Steagall

repeal” was in changing the culture of commercial banking so that the

“bigger risk” culture of investment banking “came out on top.”

See Here:

The real causes of the American financial market collapse, were the abuse of derivatives and securitisation of debt; mainly Sub Prime Mortgages.

The subsequent effects were felt by various other nation states, in degrees according to banker's exposure to supposed asset classes (MBSs et al) and their liquidity. However, the so-called "Credit Crunch" was subsequently seized on by Brown and certain members of the ECB as a ready excuse and cover up for other systemic incompetence of their systems and abysmal lack of abilities.

It was and very much is a systemic problem and caused by excessive Credit Money Creation  and Fractional Reserve Banking gone mad.

Read Stiglitz's seminal work, here:

I'm a great admirer of Joe Stiglitz's crisp incisive analyses.

And his wonderful critique of the IMF as it now is.

Stiglitz:

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[quote user="Rabbie"]

Glue, with your talent for making allegations and your ability for not answering the question you should be a politician[:D][/quote]

Not very accurate, Rabbie: I always try to back up my statements with researched and considered facts.

Whereas on the highly emotive topic of the EU, in or out, the media are sycophantic to political hot air and spin, dependant upon the political position of the source, naturally.

As just one example, where were the carefully ascertained facts in the Grauniad to support Brown's assertions?

Conspicuous by their absence.

Brown trumpets and the paper faithfully reports without question.

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[quote user="Gluestick"][quote user="Rabbie"]

Glue, with your talent for making allegations and your ability for not answering the question you should be a politician[:D][/quote]

Not very accurate, Rabbie: I always try to back up my statements with researched and considered facts.

[/quote]The Smiley should have been a slight hint I was not being literal. I was merely commenting on the fact that you were not on this particular occasion backing up your argument with any facts. In fact you seemed to be doing exactly the same as you were accusing Mr Brown of doing.
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