PaulT Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Front page today'WHY DID THEY LET DOOMED JET FLY?'They then report that the day before it was grounded due to landing gear problems.Now, I have only been a passenger on an aircraft apart from taking the controls of light planes a couple of times for a short period of time. But, as a layman, do not think that the problems yesteday were related to the landing gear. In addition, take a brand new example of the sfaest plane in the world and I think it would have had problems lanidng in the Alps.Off to the newsagent to cancel the DM and order the Beano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Great another convert, Dennis the menace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Actually I saw it on the BBC news first and made a point of NOT giving a link to the DM. [:P]The only thing to my knowledge that could normally make a plane like this drop so fast would be decompression. If the 'drop downs' pop the plane will automatically lose altitude very quickly unless overridden by the aircrew but normally for passenger safety they would let it descend automatically. I seem to rememebr that it will go down to 7,000ft. They have just over 15 minutes (the legal requirement) of oxygen which does give the pilots some latitude. Anyway we should know reasonably soon as I believe I read they have one of the black boxes already.http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/files/safety_library_items/AirbusSafetyLib_-FLT_OPS-CAB_OPS-SEQ09.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 but you cannot let it just keep descending in the Alpes, to start with, the ground in the valleys is normally higher than sea level and then the mountains, well. I do not understand why they did not send out an emergency call, surely they could feel the descent even if the instruments may not have been showing it.I remember a crash in the NE of France/Luxembourg way in the 90's I think and the instruments were not registering how far above the 'ground' the plane was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I cannot see the purpose in speculating on the incident ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 [quote user="AnOther"]I cannot see the purpose in speculating on the incident ?[/quote]Neither can I. They have one of the black boxes and now the cockpit voice recorder (picture on BBC lunchtime news, bit mangled but the actual media container looked intact). I guess it will be sent to Farnborough and will take a couple of months before we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 I would have thought that there would be a great deal of pressure to access it asap - France and the UK in addition to Germany have a lot of people employed building Airbuses so will not want negative speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 [quote user="PaulT"]I would have thought that there would be a great deal of pressure to access it asap - France and the UK in addition to Germany have a lot of people employed building Airbuses so will not want negative speculation.[/quote]Well it seems early reports of finding the flight recorder were not quite correct according to the BBC news tonight. The have found part of it but not the bit that contains the recording media. Likeise they have not found the second recorder yet.A test of the cockpit voice recorder has been made and they can hear what was going on. They have not 'listened' to the contents only 'flicked' through it to make sure it works. They need the flight recorder so they can sync the timeline between voice and data. It's going to be difficult because the only access is by air and having seen the video on the TV it is spread over the nooks and crannies of some 4km2.The first stage is to have a quick look for the flight recorder but the prime focus is on finding and accounting for the bodies.I don't think anyone has made and speculative remarks because nobody knows.All I can say is that given the speed of descent it could have been decompression which would make the aircraft go into an automatic emergency descent but IF that is what happened the cause of such a decompression could be a hundred and one things.The only thing I heard was that it had a break problem reported a week or two ago but that would not cause a plane to crash (other than on the ground and that’s pretty slim). So better to go slow and get it right.Don't forget that as well as the black boxes some very basic information is fed back to the ground automatically and if anyone had the slightest feeling there was a serious problem with the aircraft, however slim, the whole 320 fleet would be grounded by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 One theory in the French press is that the windscreen could have busted which would take out the pilots etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 [quote user="woolybanana"]One theory in the French press is that the windscreen could have busted which would take out the pilots etc.[/quote]That would certainly make the aircraft go into an automatic emergency descent but lets wait and see.By the way I just did some checking and the altitude at which it should level out from an automated emergency descent is 10,000ft above sea level with the altimeters set to the standard sea level baseline of 1013.2(5)mb so in theory t should have been above the area in which it crashed which I read somewhere was just over 8,000ft if memory serves. Even more reason to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I heard a report that perhaps the pilots were abducted by aliens.I don't mean to be flippant in the wake of the tragedy it's just to illustrate the futility of speculation, or in fact any comment, until solid information is released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 [quote user="AnOther"]I heard a report that perhaps the pilots were abducted by aliens.I don't mean to be flippant in the wake of the tragedy it's just to illustrate the futility of speculation, or in fact any comment, until solid information is released.[/quote]Yes Ernst, now apply that logic to the very first post, sensationalism from the DM which is what the thread began with. Could we get IS to shoot the daily mail? that would certainly help the world in general and the twat that owns the DM actually is 180 deg about face of the things his rag writes and I can't believe people actually subscribe to the tosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Quote Teapot 'and I can't believe people actually subscribe to the tosh'I'm living proof. However, the biggest danger is not questioning what is written hence my initial posting.The Aviation Herald website is most informative with pilots discussing incidents involving aircraft. One recurrent theme is fumes in the cockpit of German owned aircraft.Perhaps though judging by how newsworthy this is that it is a very rare occurrence.I can imagine the glee in the various newrooms when news of the crash came in.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 [quote user="PaulT"]One recurrent theme is fumes in the cockpit of German owned aircraft.[/quote] Sauerkraut and Bratwurst perhaps [+o(] [:)]Yes "news" is just a commodity to these people although the emotion of the on the spot reporter is often not held back, they have to face the full horror and that takes courage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Perhaps Germans should be encouraged to wash their socks every day?http://avherald.com/h?article=4782b5f1Alternativly is there a particular area of Spain on the flight path into Barcelona where a whole village/town does not wash their socks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 And so the rumours starthttp://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/26/one-pilot-locked-out-germanwings-planes-cockpit-4u9525-claims-new-york-times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cendrillon Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Q this information was on the BBC news this a.m. If this is so it could be possible that while one pilot was out of the cockpit the remaining pilot could have suffered a heart attack or other ailment and been unable to open the door and more importantly unable to fly the aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Kent II Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 And an aviation expert on the BBC says that - if you know how - it is perfectly possible to open the flight deck door. As Q says, lets wait until we have reliable information.A few weeks ago I went to a talk given by one of the surgeons at the Queens Medical Centre in Nottingham about the Kegworth air accident.He implied that the prime cause of that crash was inadequate conversion training of the pilots from one 737 variant to another. They were flying a new variant for the first time and did not know that the flight deck air conditioning bleed had been switched from one engine to the other. When they could smell fumes coming into the flight deck they shut down the wrong engine.Let's wait for definitive news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 It has just been announced that one of the pilots did deliberately crash the plane. This news comes from the Marseille prosecutor. I'm finding it hard to believe.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 [quote user="Hoddy"]It has just been announced that one of the pilots did deliberately crash the plane. This news comes from the Marseille prosecutor. I'm finding it hard to believe.Hoddy[/quote]I didn't want to speculate on the mental state of the remaining pilot but that is certainly something that crossed my mind. unusual to take others with them, normally they want to end their lives not others ( depressives not pilots) but that's an amateur observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 It is disturbing to speculate that, after this terrible tragedy and the Malaysian one, there may need to be some thought given to how on earth any airline can prevent a pilot from taking this sort of action.Up to now, security concerns and measure have focused on passengers. Now that there have been two such incidents in fairly short order, it's difficult to imagine how airlines can police the mental state of crew. Let's face it, as you're standing in the umpteenth security queue at the airport, these are the people who just swan through with their airside passes and nobody bats an eyelid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Up until I heard this just now on the BBC news I was strongly of the opinion that it was an emergency descent due to decompression and to be honest I was wondering if it was some form of terrorist attack, small bomb perhaps. However having corrected my own error as to the height it would descend to (10,000ft) and the fact that it stated in several newspapers the crash happened at just over 8,000ft the aircraft should have cleared the mountain. Also what I was unaware of is that the new system fitted to the various Airbus aircraft allows the pilot to enter in the heights of objects, such as mountains, on route into the system so that in the case of an emergency descent it would clear such an object.So we are now left with was this a terrorist suicide attack or was it just a suicide without any care for those who were on board? was it planned or opportunist? If it was planned then how did the co-pilot know the pilot would go to the toilet at that particular time? Anyway best not speculate and wait for further news. My condolences to the families of the lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 So the DM headline on Wednesday:'WHY DID THEY LET DOOMED JET FLY?' Todays'WHY ON EARTH WAS HE ALLOWED TO FLY?'Tomorrows'WHY WASN'T SUPERMAN ON BOARD TO BREAK DOWN THE DOOR' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Now perhaps you see why I said speculation was pointless and so much for the BBC's aviation 'expert ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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