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UK winter fuel allowance


Hereford
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Interesting point came up today in an email from a friend here in France.  We had known that we would not get the WFA this year but apparently someone living near her has just received this allowance.

This person lives here in France permanently but has her OAP paid into a UK bank account.

It has been suggested to us that by having the OAP paid in the Uk as opposed to here in France the allowance will be received as in previous years.

OH said when hearing this:  "Surely even that peabrained lot over there are not that thick".

We think it more likely that the person receiving the allowance is not fully in the system here - to put it politely.  Anyone else had their WFA paid to a UK bank account whilst living in France?

If so then "they" really are peabrained.

Mrs H

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I don't see how anyone would intentionally get WFA if known to live in France, otherwise what has all the fuss been about?

But whether it's the UK's fault for not knowing an elbow from other bits of anatomy, or whether the person in question has helped confuse them, only that person knows and they probably aren't telling. However I can quite believe that they are that thick. They spend so much time and money inventing complicated rules to save money, and then they blow it all by not being able to put any of it into practice efficiently because they haven't thought it through properly.
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My first reaction was the same as the OP - this person presumably declares that they live in the UK and is therefore not registered here for tax or medical treatment. I would have thought that these days computer checks of passports and travel would mean they would be limited to their 183 days though.

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We didn't get the WFA allowance , and didn't expect to.

I read on another forum however that expats in some European countries do still get it, Italy was one. Don't know if that's correct and if so what the reason is.

I wonder if we'll still get the oneoff £10 which used to arrive in early Dec - I presume it's towards the cost of the xmas festivities.

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Pat

Italian based OAPs will get the WFA since Italy is patently much colder than France! Well it is according to the fudge the peabrains used to do the calculations, where DOM/TOMs have been used in the calculation of France's average winter temperatures.
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We spend half the year in UK, half in France. My half of the winter fuel allowance goes into our UK account, and arrived several days ago. My husband's pension is paid into our French bank account, and his half hasn't arrived - wasn't expecting it to, as we live in the baking hot south of France. This bitterly cold Mistral much be a figment of my and my bitterly cold fingers' imaginations. Although I must add that the sunshine today is glorious.

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I think OH might have got his half of the WFA, he did claim it before he left the UK, whereas I didn't, but did get my half share last year after the chages.  I haven't had anything - yet.  Who knows?  However, all my UK pensions but state are paid in the UK, whereas all his come here.  You work it out, 'cos I can't!  I wasn't expecting it, but looks like the systems are up the creek.  And before you ask - we are legitimately here and pay taxes here, so that's not the answer either.

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Gardengirl: I read that to mean that you are tax resident in the Uk and not France - in which case you should certainly get the WFA. If your husband does not just because it is being sent to France that surely would be wrong in the opposite way to my original post!!

Fascinating.

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Although it is a lost cause it is worth remembring the deliberate dishonesty of the Government in the way they deliberately confused the Cold Weather Payment  which is designed to help people in very cold spells or climates with the Winter Fuel Payment  which was a replacement for a rise in pensions one year and was intended for all OAPs. It had nothing to do with climate or temperature, it was simply to help with the fact that fuel bills (wherever you live) are higher in the winter months.  It was nothing to do with climate just a sop for not raising pensions.

Removing it from those living out of the UK is this simply reducing those people's pensions, and bodes ill for them if the UK leaves the EU.

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Norman is spot on in this instance.  It's nothing to do with weather cold or otherwise and is, to all intents and purposes, part of the pension package.

Also, just to dispel some confusion on these pages, here are some facts:

doesn't matter whether your pension is paid to a UK bank account or a French one

doesn't matter whether you started collecting it whilst you were still in the UK or only since you have come to live in France

does matter whether you are fiscally resident in the UK or in France (OAPs living in France and pay their impots in France do NOT get the WFA as from this year)

But, it's only 200 quid per household (though was 300 in ours, as OH is over 80 years of age) and the exchange rate is currently 1.42 or thereabouts[:)]

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I must admit that I thought that we were still on for it & that 2016 was to be the last year.

Mrs G is inconsolable - Crimbo ruined. Looks like Boudin Noir & Chips on the 25th.

If anybody wants to start a whip round for us, we'd be eternally grateful.

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I agree with Norman but we are stuck with this government and just have to live with it.

If they really wanted to make savings perhaps they should look at the possibility of giving people the option to have the payment made to one of the people entitled to it. It seems to be inefficient to make two payments to the same joint account and send out two notificationsto the same address. Where people want separate payments then this should be allowed but there is clearly room for some savings without hurting recipients.

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With reference to Norman's last post, we moved permanently to France in November 2014, and have not paid any French taxes yet (tried to, but was told I had not been in France long enough and to submit a return for 2015 in March 2016), so have only paid UK tax, and continue to do so. Pensions paid into UK bank account.

We received winter fuel payment in 2013, but it was withdrawn as soon as we moved to France, so UK bank account or paying UK taxes make no difference - if you live in France, you have the winter fuel payment stopped.
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[quote user="Lingone"]With reference to Norman's last post, we moved permanently to France in November 2014, and have not paid any French taxes yet (tried to, but was told I had not been in France long enough and to submit a return for 2015 in March 2016), so have only paid UK tax, and continue to do so. Pensions paid into UK bank account.

We received winter fuel payment in 2013, but it was withdrawn as soon as we moved to France, so UK bank account or paying UK taxes make no difference - if you live in France, you have the winter fuel payment stopped.[/quote]

Wasn't that exactly what I said?[geek]

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Mint,

You posted "does matter whether you are fiscally resident in the UK or in France (OAPs living in France and pay their impots in France do NOT get the WFA as from this year)", implying that OAPs living in France but only paying UK tax would still get the allowance. That is how I read it, and I was simply seeking to clarify the position from our experience. If I misread or misunderstood, apologies.
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Lingone

Where you pay tax does not necessarily relate to where you are fiscally resident.

In the case you quote, someone living in France but only paying UK tax is in fact French tax resident but pays tax in the UK according to the Double Taxation Treaty rules - assuming they are following the rules and not pulling a fast one.
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[quote user="Lingone"]Mint,

You posted "does matter whether you are fiscally resident in the UK or in France (OAPs living in France and pay their impots in France do NOT get the WFA as from this year)", implying that OAPs living in France but only paying UK tax would still get the allowance. That is how I read it, and I was simply seeking to clarify the position from our experience. If I misread or misunderstood, apologies.[/quote]

No apologies needed, Lingone.

From your description of how you are situated, it seems to me that you are fiscally resident in France even though you might not, at least for this year, be paying income tax in France.

The slight confusion that may arise is that the French tax year, unlike the UK one, starts the 1st of January and you fill in your first tax return the year following your arrival.  For example, we came here to live on 1 April 2007 so I did my first French return in 2008.

In our case, we were fiscally resident from Day One in France and we completed a return for the UK relevant to that date (as given above) and the income from the rest of 2007 were taxed in France.

Don't know if I have been clear in my explanation and, if I haven't succeeded, then that is entirely due to me and not to you![:)]

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  • 2 weeks later...
Oh dear - some rather snide sweeping comments here - not very nice.

It is possible to keep one's UK bank a/c, to have one's UK pensions, state and government, paid into UK bank accounts, and have a french bank account - AND be part of the French tax system.

We have, we are - and we will not receive the WFA this year.

So be careful about making unfounded accusations without full knowledge of circumstances.   Run the risk of libel there, so be careful.

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I think that you may have misinterpreted some of the comments here Chessie.

Everything you say above is entirely 'correct' and for what its worth, fits with our profile.

Unless I've missed something, what the others were alluding to is somebody who is simply (as far as the UK HMRC, DWP, etc) still UK resident and thus able to 'enjoy' the benefit of a couple of hundred quid's worth of WFA + anything else that they may feel is advantageous to them.

Why anybody should feel the need to do that is beyond most of us, because in most cases, it isn't even financially advantageous. Its either ignorance of the rules or stupidity - maybe a bit of both.
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Oh dear - if I've misunderstood something - then I so apologise - my fault.

But as I understand it, the WFA is ONLY for UK residents, and those in 'colder' eu countries than France - and we all know what was behind that decision and how 'they' arrived at it;  crafty little b----rs fiddling the stats - not so pea-brained after all.

But for someone living in France to receive the WFA then they MUST have a UK address - no other way around it.  So using a UK address to receive a benefit which is not payable in France isn't just being 'naughty' - that is fraud.........

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