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We are the Compassionate Party...


Grecian
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...Said Cameron last year before the election.

Really Dave...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/budget-cut-personal-independence-payments-7568427

Yesterday saw the nasty party in full flow, proposing to take away 4 billion pounds from people who cannot wash themselves or need help to use the toilet. Whilst giving the rich the same amount of money raised, a tax cut in the form of raising the tax threshold by £3000. This will mean people like prima donna premership footballers will enjoy a tax cut, whilst some poor devils in real need who cannot wash or toilet themselves will be kicked in the teeth big time.

This follows on from the cut to ESA by £30 a week, to be taken away from people who are battling cancer, who have had a heart attack or stroke, and any other terrible disease or illness you care to mentioned. The ideology behind taking £30 a week off this group of people is that it will encourage them to return to work quicker. Try telling that to some poor bas**** who has just suffering a massive heart attack!

I have read on other threads on this forum, people who live permanently in France are considering voting to leave the EU. If you feel you want to trust your future welfare to two totally off-the-scale right-wing nut cases in the form of Osbourne and Duncan-Smith, then the very best of luck with that. If the UK votes to the the EU then you can probably say goodbye to your S1, and look forward to Duncan-Smith freezing your state pension. That is if you are lucky enough to be in receipt of it.

Under the tories the UK is now the country of work til you drop, if you drop then tough luck don't expect any help from the state. Oh and by the way please keep paying in your national insurance contributions, we want to put your retirement age up to 75, so all your national insurance contributions will come in very nicely for future tax cuts for all our mates at the top.

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Withoit wishing to get into the politics I will say that where you talk emotively about work till you drop, you are talking about a demographic crisis which I remember people in the know being very concerned about in 1986, probably many years before that, 30 years of governments of all the political parties chose to ignore the ever growing elephant in the room leaving it for the next one in power, it would not matter who was in government, sooner rather than later someone had to take the first steps to tackle it and they were going to get the flak.

 

FWIW you aint seen nothing yet, my normal retirement age would have been 65, I think its now 68, leaving me another 12 years, I fully expect it to have gone up to 75 by then and even that will be too little too late, it should be at least 75 today for both men and women and that still would be too little too late.

 

And then there is France with its head firmly in the sand, thank god I am not cotising for a retirement here.

 

Oh and raisng the tax threshold by £3000 if you mean the lower threshold before you pay tax (I dont know what was in the budget) well that is going to have a huge effect on a low wage earner and a Professional footballer would not even notice the difference, what is it Worth? £3000 x 20% (I'm long out of touch) £600 pa, a lot to someone on the breadline, just another bottle of champagne in a nightclub to a footballer.

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There's nothing in the forum rules that says you can't express your political views, providing you don't use racist, sexist or insulting language.

The serious point Grecian makes is related to whether you trust the UK government in it's current form, to make decisions that are in the best interest of the majority of it's citizens, or whether you think people are better off with the moderating hand of the EU.

If I was a disabled person I know what I'd be thinking but we are all free to come to our own conclusions.

I'm still waiting for someone to give a clear idea of what leaving the EU actually would mean, who the UK would be trading with, what sort of model is envisaged??? Still there's plenty of time for Boris and co to come up with their plan.

I always think the issue of retirement age is an interesting one. Medically speaking, the average age of 75 is the age at which people start to experience significant medical problems that begin to affect their ability to do daily living. I think the figures are that around 12% of those over 75 have a degree of dementia that makes it difficult for them to manage their daily affairs, so the difficulty is that the older you make retirement age, the more people will need support due to sickness and disability. This goes up if people are in physically demanding or highly stressful jobs. Ie: they can work for a shorter amount of time. Conversely, those that choose early retirement tend to live longer and are healthier, placing less demand on the health services. The difficult thing is that none of us know whether we will be one of the lucky ones who will be able to continue to be productive until we drop, or whether we will be like the majority, needing increasingly more support as we get older.
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A somewhat disingenuous way to drag cheap political polemic into this forum, Linda. We have always avoided UK politics by tacit agreement as it is probably divisive and because this is a French forum about matters French.

OK, you managed by a piece of spurious logic to make a link with the referendum which has been extensively discussed here, but that is that. But for me and others, please keep the rest for the pages of the Daily Mail or whatever other, UK BASED, which will listen to your views.
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[quote user="lindal1000"]The difficult thing is that none of us know whether we will be one of the lucky ones who will be able to continue to be productive until we drop, or whether we will be like the majority, needing increasingly more support as we get older.[/quote]

 

I know that I will be in the former group, OK, I cannot know so will say "firmly believe" then. I believe in the power of positive thinking, the thought of working till I am 75 before recieving a pension holds no fear for me,but then others could argue that I retired, albeit without any pension or income, at 44 years young [;-)]

 

As long as I can be voluntarily productive until I drop rather than drop from being forced to be productive then that would be ideal.

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When you say 'we' have always avoided political debate by tacit agreement to whom are referring?

I've seen more discussion of UK politics on this forum than on the two others I visit, especially as many posters seem to live in the UK. I believe that Grecian also linked his or her post to the referendum.

I don't know much about the Daily Mail as I don't read it, but didn't they used to quite like the 'nasty party' or have they changed allegiance now.

Chancer, every patient I worked with in my younger days believed they would be the 'exception'.
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My family and friends know what I want to be written on my headstone, "it will never happen to me" or "what's the worst that could happen" for if I do something really stupid (again!) [:D]

 

This once was an active and healthy forum where people have the right to discuss whatever they want not a cosy little clique where scorn is poured on those who deviate from the - what was the wording? - unwritten rules.

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Rubbish, Chancer. Yes, there was a lot of nasty late night discussion a few years ago, fuelled by red wine, but most of those involved have now gone.

Since then, we do not discuss what are essentiall British political matters which these are because they can cause unnecessary friction, causing members to leave, even if not particularly involved.

Having a deliberate go at one British political party is beyond the pale and should be consigned to a pail of nightsoil.

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As Lindal asked, who is "We"?

 

There cannot be many to choose from but I can confirm that I dont form part of the self appointed "we" who make (up) the rules that others are expected to tacitly abide by.

 

All sounds very cosy and insular, - "we dont do things like that around here" he/she does not fit in.

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[quote user="lindal1000"]When you say 'we' have always avoided political debate by tacit agreement to whom are referring?

I've seen more discussion of UK politics on this forum than on the two others I visit, especially as many posters seem to live in the UK.[/quote]

Would one of those  "other forums" be the one that seems to spend most of it's time Westminster bashing? Well if so it's understandable that you think there is more political debate on this one, as what occurs on the other one is not exactly debate, as it seems that unless you agree with the tartan brigade and the middle class lefties, your views are jumped upon and sneered at. Small wonder that more and more people don't bother. As for many posters living in the UK, I think you will find that they join forums to ask questions about France not to be regaled with tales of  woe about  UK politics

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Posts 2, 3 & 5 - why on earth should Grecian's political view not be aired on here? Not even political, just common sense.

That's a typical tactic of those clinging on to power - criminalise the opposition's efforts.

And a tactic of those who can see their support melting away, even within their own party.

Corbyn et al do well to keep shtum - give the Tories enough rope and they'll hang themselves.

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So we have members of this forum trying to censor what threads may be or not be posted on these boards now, hmm... As the title of this particular section is 'Other Topics', and the sentence below states NON-France related discussion, (the forums use of capital letters, not mine) I feel fully justified in posting my thread, and fully stand by what I have posted.

Just for the record, I have to look after my disabled wife full-time, and when I see out of touch politicians spouting what is absolute, lets be polite, rubbish in what they say that by cutting disabled and vulnerable peoples benefits they are in fact helping this group of people, it really makes me very angry indeed. My wife has taken this latest assault personally and she just cannot see how any decent human being could possibly want to penalize the most vulnerable in society. But unfortunately this is what this government is doing, and as it happens to be a conservative government that is proposing to bring in these cuts, then it is a conservative government that I am attacking.

If members of this forum feel I am spouting 'verbal diarrhea' or to be attacking one particular political party that happens in this case to be the party that is running the country, then I will say to them, tough, if you don't like the subject of this thread, then very respectively please refrain from reading it and posting on it.

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I do not mind this post.

I know that Handicap France (Cotorep) have changed their rules and no longer 'help' as they used to. I know people who have been told that due to budget cuts, the help they received is no longer available.

So easy to attack those that have problems and defending themselves. And I reckon that there would be enough money if many of the multi nationals were not permitted so easily to escape paying their dues.

Strange how 'the' Minister at any particular Ministry can be such a force.

In France for many years it was Charles Pasqua, two terms in the Ministre de l'Interieur and boy did everyone know when he was there.

And in this tory government, it is IDS. A man I hate, loathe, detest with true passion. And boy do we know he is Secretary of State for Works and Pensions.

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I wonder how many of you saw this advertisement for the compassionate party

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12192960/Owen-Paterson-stunned-Cabinet-with-OAP-fruit-picking-idea-David-Laws.html

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/14/tory-minister-wanted-uk-pensioners-to-be-low-wage-fruit-pickers
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IDS resigned this evening.

[quote user="idun"]I do not mind this post.

I know that Handicap France (Cotorep) have changed their rules and no longer 'help' as they used to. I know people who have been told that due to budget cuts, the help they received is no longer available.

So easy to attack those that have problems and defending themselves. And I reckon that there would be enough money if many of the multi nationals were not permitted so easily to escape paying their dues.

Strange how 'the' Minister at any particular Ministry can be such a force.

In France for many years it was Charles Pasqua, two terms in the Ministre de l'Interieur and boy did everyone know when he was there.

And in this tory government, it is IDS. A man I hate, loathe, detest with true passion. And boy do we know he is Secretary of State for Works and Pensions.

[/quote]
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[quote user="NormanH"]Perfectly reasonable to post this in "Other Topics"

[/quote]

The OP expressed a reasonable opinion supported by some Conservative MPs so IMO  it was not too controversial. I was surprised at the reaction from some who I thought would be more tolerant of views they do not agree with. There was in my opinion nothing in the OP that broke forum rules or current forum usage.

My advice is that if you disagree with the  OP's views then help to keep this forum alive by putting up an intelligent rebuttal of his opinion and the debate can continue. It rather defeats the object of a forum if every controversial opinion is to be deleted.

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Here's an interesting article I read earlier. Of course, it refers to the USA, but I'm guessing the results would be similar in any country.

http://www.chicagobooth.edu/capideas/blog/2015/june/nudge-nudge-your-politics-are-showing
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I think that he is simply positioning himself for after a Brexit.

Cameron and Osborne would have to go and there will be space at the top...

The idea that he is resigning over principle when he has spent years enforcing hardship is farcical.

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[quote user="NormanH"]I think that he is simply positioning himself for after a Brexit.

Cameron and Osborne would have to go and there will be space at the top...

The idea that he is resigning over principle when he has spent years enforcing hardship is farcical.

[/quote]

my thoughts entirely

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[quote user="NormanH"]I think that he is simply positioning himself for after a Brexit.

Cameron and Osborne would have to go and there will be space at the top...

The idea that he is resigning over principle when he has spent years enforcing hardship is farcical.

[/quote]

There was a discussion about this on Newsnight.

The consensus was that IDS was putting the knife into Osbourne and twisting it a bit and that the resignation had more to do with the referendum and less about the budget. Any resignation over the budget should have occurred on Wednesday not today

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