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Great - now what???


Debra
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I watched the BBC footage of the Thiepval ceremony with pride, i thought it was superbly done, both the ceremony and the live transmission, the camera shots were superb.

 

What did make me laugh though and I Wonder whether it was BBC bias or someone having a laugh, when François Hollande made his speech the caption said "F, Hollande, President of France" the next person up to speak was "David Cameron, UK MP" [:D]

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I am told but have not read it myself that France and a couple of other countries have said they are willing to work with the UK if they don't leave. Meanwhile it is nice to know that us on the remain side can get adopted by other EU members.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/01/europeans-invite-brits-to-relocate-promising-pubs-marmite-and-social-awkwardness

 

Not sure about Benidorm if it's anything like the TV program.

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[quote user="andyh4"]YCCMB wrote

Here's someone - an EU lover, granted, but then a few of us are accused of that - who bothered to fact-check...

http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the-eu-does-not-fund-companies-to-move-jobs-out-of-the-uk/

Yours,

Little snowflake

Unquote

So there you have it Earnie, Chessie and others. No suggestion of racism, no questioning your intelligence, not even a mention of your ability to write without mistakes.

Pure and simple you have been scammed - and it seems by a so called newspaper at that.

The irony is of course, that having helped to persuade electors to vote for an exit, the situation that they reported which was not true because EU rules forbid grants being offered to entice business from one EU country to another, will after the exit become not only possible but indeed highly likely.

I am sure Eastern Europe would enjoy some of the Nissan/Toyota/Honda cake.[/quote]

Sorry for you Andy, but I was not scammed, why not read again what I said ?

I wrote :Received this in an email & obviously have no idea of its bona fides; but interesting ...

If this is true, or even just perceived so by the majority of voters, one can easily comprehend why Brexit actually happened.

That is all operfectly true yer Honerr.

Now I have checked with the source, but they cannot provide documentation. So none of those companies moved premises and no-one lost their job ? That's a great relief.

The EU "system" of rewards does not rely on thick bundles of 500€ notes (AFAIAA), the 30,000+ lobbyists in BRU know plenty other ways of being "rewarded" for what they do for their employers, many of them used to work "across the street".

(Written for Ernie by his friend Earnie BTW)

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The person who subtitled "David Cameron, UK MP" was an ignorant buffoon lacking any sense of occasion or a malevolent person taking a cheap shot at all the UK in front of the world. I don’t find it funny.

David Cameron is PM of the UK. At Thiepval, he represented the people of the UK very well and has always done a good job at this sort of thing.

PS - difficult to post this morning.

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Ernie wrote:

Now I have checked with the source but they cannot provide documentation

I am sure that if you were to check with the source of the original newspaper articles that started these rumours, you would find the same.

As the author of the blog points out, several of the incidents happened, although not as the spin would have you believe. The fact is that they happened without EU intervention or funding, and would have happened regardless of whether the UK had been an EU member or not. International private sector businesses make decisions based on their own goals and requirements, and unpalatable as this may be, this will continue, if not escalate.

Just as the puzzle will always remain as to how EU migrants manage to come here and steal our jobs whilst simultaneously managing to come solely to claim benefits, there's the puzzle as to how the EU has driven our economy into the ground and caused the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs, whilst simultaneously placing us third lowest in its rankings for unemployment.
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Ernie wrote:

Now I have checked with the source but they cannot provide documentation

I am sure that if you were to check with the source of the original newspaper articles that started these rumours, you would find the same.

As the author of the blog points out, several of the incidents happened, although not as the spin would have you believe. The fact is that they happened without EU intervention or funding, and would have happened regardless of whether the UK had been an EU member or not. International private sector businesses make decisions based on their own goals and requirements, and unpalatable as this may be, this will continue, if not escalate.

Just as the puzzle will always remain as to how EU migrants manage to come here and steal our jobs whilst simultaneously managing to come solely to claim benefits, there's the puzzle as to how the EU has driven our economy into the ground and caused the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs, whilst simultaneously placing us third lowest in its rankings for unemployment.
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[quote user="ernie"]The person who subtitled "David Cameron, UK MP" was an ignorant buffoon lacking any sense of occasion or a malevolent person taking a cheap shot at all the UK in front of the world. I don’t find it funny.

David Cameron is PM of the UK. At Thiepval, he represented the people of the UK very well and has always done a good job at this sort of thing.

PS - difficult to post this morning.[/quote]

Well according to the French with whom I dined on Thursday last, we have already gone, we are already out ... so maybe the commentator only reflected what the "hoi polloi" in France believe.  I have had to explain often to my French friends the role of the Queen, and how the succession works, as they are sure that William and not Charles will be the King when the Queen dies, though I have told them several times what happens ... and likewise they have never understood that Cameron remains PM until replaced .... to them, resigning is well, resigning - as of now! 

I also tried hard to explain that we were not out of the EU until Parliament had voted for it, but they could not see that either!  So much for the entente cordiale.

I do agree, however, that the commentator was wrong in not naming Cameron correctly, but maybe he really had not been well briefed in the light of other French people's knowledge and perceptions.  I also believe that Cameron has done a good job in his statesman and diplomatic role.

I too tried to post this earlier, but found the system not working correctly, it would not quote ... but seems to be OK at the moment.

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2 interesting articles:http://weil.blog.lemonde.fr/2016/07/01/souvenons-nous-de-churchill-proposons-la-nationalite-francaise-aux-britanniques/#.V3fTqsrLGjI.email

http://www.legalbusiness.co.uk/index.php/lb-blog-view/6793-devereux-chambers-barrister-raises-10-000-in-crowdfunder-to-bring-case-to-prevent-brexit
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Judith, our friends around here are exactly the opposite; first they find it difficult to believe that anything will change, and then say but it won't apply to us - much like Claude who we buy cheese from, who told all his customers around us that he would go to law to tell them we are really French!

Friends and neighbours can't accept that we will leave the EU (I find it difficult to believe too!).
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Yes Judith, I know just what you mean. Many foreigners do not understand the (general) British way of life or British institutions, do they ?

OTOH, the same applies to Brits about foreigners.

If I remember correctly, it was Roy Jenkins’ bio which told a story about Churchill’s trip to France in 1940. WSC and the Cabinet flew to France with the Entente Cordiale offer. It was discussed over a full French dinner, during which, Churchill signalled to his people to leave the room. Out they all trooped.

Certain Frenchmen were suspicious of this mass “British exit” (couldn't resist it) and surmised a “deal” was being planned (l’Albion perfide?). An English-speaking observer was dispatched to spy on the proceedings, but returned and revealed their departure to the adjoining courtyard was merely to satisfy a need of nature, not to concoct dire deeds.

(I thought some mild humour would not be amiss ?)

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[quote user="Gardengirl "]Judith, our friends around here are exactly the opposite; first they find it difficult to believe that anything will change, and then say but it won't apply to us - much like Claude who we buy cheese from, who told all his customers around us that he would go to law to tell them we are really French!

Friends and neighbours can't accept that we will leave the EU (I find it difficult to believe too!).[/quote]

Yes indeed, there you go gardengirl. Again, we are all different, Thank Goodness.

Me too – I find it difficult to believe the UK is regaining its independence. Rather like having passed a difficult exam brilliantly when I was dead-sure I had failed.

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The reply to the petition to have a second referendum sounds to me like they're not only refusing that but that the intention is to invoke Article 50 without a vote in parliament, the reasoning being that there was a vote in parliament on the Referendum Act so there is no need for another vote on the result.

'Government responded:

The European Union Referendum Act received Royal Assent

in December 2015, receiving overwhelming support from Parliament. The

Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout.

The EU Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December

2015. The Act was scrutinised and debated in Parliament during its

passage and agreed by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords.

The Act set out the terms under which the referendum would take place,

including provisions for setting the date, franchise and the question

that would appear on the ballot paper. The Act did not set a threshold

for the result or for minimum turnout.

As the Prime Minister made clear in his statement to the House of

Commons on 27 June, the referendum was one of the biggest democratic

exercises in British history with over 33 million people having their

say. The Prime Minister and Government have been clear that this was a

once in a generation vote and, as the Prime Minister has said, the

decision must be respected. We must now prepare for the process to exit

the EU and the Government is committed to ensuring the best possible

outcome for the British people in the negotiations.

Foreign and Commonwealth Office'

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Now we know who the next Prime Minister is. IMO she was the best of the candidates and the most likely to get the UK a good deal. I wish her well.

I am a little disappointed that the decision to invoke Article 50 will be done using the Royal Perogative rather than by a democratic vote in Parliament. It seems a little ironic that a decision taken on the basis of restoring the sovereignty of Parliament should be authorised in this way. Yet another example of Brexit saying one thing and not meaning it.

It would be interesting to hear what sort of deal people here would like to see and what sort of deal they e pet we will get
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Unbelievably seeing as it is a Murdoch owned media source but Sky News this morning reported that over 1,000 barristers have signed a letter to say they will be challenging the referendum in the high court because the information (like the £350M per day) was, as proved by many professional sources, to be incorrect and that people voted on the basis of the information given. There are currently two cases I believe (having read it in the press) pending to have the vote annulled. Personally I would like to see Gove, Johnson and Farage made personally responsible and accountable for any of the lies they told.

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[quote user="Cathar Tours"] Personally I would like to see Gove, Johnson and Farage made personally responsible and accountable for any of the lies they told.[/quote]

Now that would be a sight to behold; especially as so many gullible people believed the tall tales.

Just as some people began to believe that all immigrants in the UK who had arrived in the last xxx number of years would be ejected forthwith.

Sue

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According to the Daily Mail today many from Zimbabwe and Nigeria are going to the UK to get their cataracts done for free on the NHS then returning home. Off course this sort of thing has been going on for a while. What did interest me was the readers comments and several times I saw people had written something along the lines of "Glad we voted to leave the EU, that will put a stop to them." etc. as if they believed both these countries were EU members! Some people are just so stupid it beggars believe at times.
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And I would have liked the EU to be accountable for much of what they were doing, for many many years.... but we do not always get what we want!

Believe me or not, but Murdoch, Farage and Johnson did not influence me OR anyone I know, why do some on here keep rabbiting on, inferring that EVERYONE who doesn't agree with them is mentally deficient....a sheep, incapable of reasoning or individual thought.

And I really am wondering IF the information NOW being used by those accusing the likes of me of suffering undue influence, is from those very same newspapers and news services the likes of which apparently, pre election had 'addled' , what must have been my poor and feeble brain.

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Idun, I certainly don't think you are stupid or misled so I would be interested to know what you think the UK should do now that we are going to leave. Up till now there has been a lack of information as to what Brexit wants to achieve so your contribution would be helpful.

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[quote user="idun"] why do some on here keep rabbiting on, inferring that EVERYONE who doesn't agree with them is mentally deficient....a sheep, incapable of reasoning or individual thought. [/quote]

 

The insults are far worse on  the other place.

Why do they do it?

I believe its because they are frightened and insecure, they went to bed happy in the (false) knowledge that their cosy existence would not be Under (percieved) threat and they woke up to a shock.

Behind all the insults, posturing and wishfull thinking there are sphincters oscillating.

In the aftermath I watched a program called "Angry Britain" a psychologist said something which I wrote down:

When people see disasters that could have been avoided, when they feel powerless, hopeless and inadequate it triggers anger.

For the first time I am going to have a signature beneath my postings and use the quote.

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Without referring to anyone in particular but as a general point..it is interesting phenomenon that despite approximately 80 % of experts explaining what the consequences were likely to be, many people chose to ignore that. It's worrying when people dismiss or debase the words of people that have studied these things all their lives, with a few sound bites. I don't know what it reflects..but it is interesting.

I too would be interested in seeing people's views on what happens next. We now have a government of sorts so..over to you..what is the next step?

My own view if anyone is interested, is firstly that the UK should delay doing anything for as long as possible, think about the options and then hold a general election where the respective parties can make their cases on the type of involvement that they wish to have with Europe in the future.

Second best would be to start the procedure to leave but to opt asap for an option such as Norway, with access to the FTA, and free movement.
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Here's a thought - if the 'experts' were so clever -

How is it that we had the financial crash ?

How is it that Greece was allowed to join the euro ?

How is it that there is huge youth unemployment throughout europe ?

How is it that we have the immigration/refugee crisis ?

Sir Stuart Rose (M&S) admitting to a HoC committee that if the UK did a Brexit 'that wages would have to rise' - there's an admission that because of over-supply of labour - employers have kept down wages - that was clever wasn't it ?

There is no such thing as 'experts' - just clever people who hoodwink by speaking confidently ....nothing more.

The experts are NOT experts as such;  they too have their own bias, their own views....

As for the 'people are stupid if they believed what the papers reported' -

My impression is that vast numbers of people had made up their own minds about the Project over quite a number of years;  they weren't influenced too much by 'the papers' - they had their own views, which might have been reinforced by 'the papers' - but not enough to persuade them to change their minds.

Maybe 40 years experience of the 'common market' (which was an excellent idea when restricted to 6 or 7 countries); but the morphing into this huge one-supra-national state is something which an increasing number of european citizens are becoming extremely unhappy about - not just UK citizens.    It's the small-minded interfering - as well as the big bullying of nation states that european citizens are concerned about.

As for what happens - who knows.   The UK government will do its best to ensure fair treatment for the UK; the eu lot will do what they can to be as difficult, and as intransigent as they can..........

But the rest of the world will also have a bearing on the outcome;  look at the nations - including the USA - already lining up to do trading agreements with the UK.   Look at multi-nats like Siemens which has confirmed it will remain, and continue to invest, in the UK.

Look at the threat to the eu from the freedoms that a UK Chancellor now has;  lowering of taxes, lowering Corporation tax etc etc.  

It is not just how the eu reacts when Article 50 is triggered;  it is how the rest of the world (trading blocs) reacts to the 'UK's open for business' - that will put a great deal of pressure on the eu not to be petty, vindictive or spiteful.

Possibly the eu will feel slightly on the back-foot during the negotiations - it's not just about the UK is it ?  It's trading, freely, with the whole world.

Will there be mass deportations - of course not - childish scare-mongering.    How many on here back-packed through Europe, and beyond, using visas ?   Were there any problems - nope, of course not.   European governments are reasonably civilised;  european citizens are reasonably civilised - it will all work out in the end, reasonably well for everyone.

Oh - and the stock markets are going back up, the £/Euro is going back up - things will balance out in time.

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